3 AM Friends with Nathaniel Melton

Aug 6

“Really good friendships I think do that, because you’ve got to earn respect. You’ve got to be able to go past the weather, the sports… I call it the three-in-the-morning kind of friend.”

— Nathaniel Melton

This week on Beyond the Bar, Abby interviews her uncle, Nathaniel Melton, a missionary, pastor, and passionate outdoorsman. Through his testimony, he offers hard-earned wisdom on...

- why fear is a liar and how to battle it

- persevering through difficult seasons in life

- how to trust and jump

- the importance of having "3 AM Friends"

“I wouldn’t accept fear anymore because even if I failed but I learned something, then it’s not failure.”

— Nathaniel Melton

Read the Podcast

Intro: Welcome to Beyond the Bar, the podcast where coffee and conversation are a catalyst for growth. If you’ve been searching for that coffee-with-a-friend experience that leaves you feeling seen, met, and encouraged, you’ve come to the right place. So grab your cup, listen up, and together we’re going Beyond the Bar.

Abby: Hey friends, welcome to Beyond the Bar. I’m your host, Abby. Today’s episode, we get to sit down with my uncle, Nathaniel Melton. So we’re going to dive right into the conversation. Thanks for being here!

Nathaniel: Hey, it’s an honor. I’m glad to be here. This is going to be fun.

Abby: Good. We started this… you were drinking a cortado at the bar, we’re talking about something, I’m not even sure what, and I was like, “Hey, this would make a great podcast episode. Would you be on the podcast?” And here we are.

Nathaniel: Here we are, and I’m excited to talk about it.

Abby: Sweet. So I think wat we were- I don’t remember the question I actually asked or ow we got into it exactly, um, but I think maybe you just asked me how life is going for me, and I stated saying, “Well, it’s actually been kind of a hard season,” um, “and I’ve been struggling with, like, knowing what to do, where to go, and I haven’t just, like loved where I’m at. It’s been kind of hard.” I think that was actually how it started, because then you started opening up about a season in your life were you weren’t really loving where you were at, and it was super hard. I think that’s kind of how the conversation started.

Nathaniel: Yeah, I think so. There was a season of time where I didn’t know life could get that hard for work. It wasn’t something I ever knew before- I mean, challenges, you have challenges that are, you know, normal, but to have years go by and you’re hating every day you go to work because of “X, Y, and Z…” that was another level. So I think began to share about a time where, um, I worked at a boys’ ranch, Rawhide, and I never expected life to be the way it turned out at the time, and so it was hard. Very hard. Like the hardest time in my life.

Abby: Was when you worked at Rawhide.

Nathaniel: Yeah. And uh, so, part of what happened is I was a missionary for 13 years, so, you know, I was with YWAM, traveled all over the world, adventures beyond adventures, met my wonderful wife Christy, we had boys, four boys at the time, with five boys, and that was ending, and uh, for lots of different reasons.

Abby: Missions was ending.

Nathaniel: Yes, missions was ending. So I was looking for a job. And at the time, I didn’t, I’m like, “What can I do?” I mean, I worked with youth and whatever, and I had a friend who worked at Rawhide that I had met, I took their Christian school down to Mexico, and we had like some of the most amazing adventures. Like, they were wild of God, like wild. Like, God just did so many incredible things.

Abby: Gotcha. Not like, party hard.

Nathaniel: No, no, none of that. It was just like these, you know crazy adventures and missions trips. And so I was looking for a job. And he goes, well, at that time he had transitioned from the Christian school to being the principle at Rawhide, there was a school on the facility, and so I got the job, and then it took him three, I don’t know, several months before I actually landed the job. So that put us in limbo, so before I even started the job, I think we were thousands and thousands of dollars in debt because I was in between-

Abby: How did you have the job but not have the job?

Nathaniel: Well, they hired me, but then I kept waiting and it was like this back-and-forth, like, “Hey, I’m ready, right?” and “We’re not ready.” I’m like, you, it was, but it should have been like, I should have, it should have been a warning like, “Hey, this is not going to go well,” or “There’s going to be some challenges.” So it was really bizarre because that’s not usually how you get a job. Like, “Hey, you’re hired,” but a month and a half later or whatever, then they bring you on.

Abby: What’d you do?

Nathaniel: So in the time, I was like, I was actually sleeping at Grandpa and Grandma’s on the couch. And I was doing part-time, like, drilling water wells, or drilling wells-

Abby: You lived there without Christy and the boys?

Nathaniel: Yeah, they were down on the campus because we’re in between, our support is now pretty much done, and I’m driving to work for whatever work I can find.

Abby: I didn’t know this!

Nathaniel: Yeah. So in that process, our support had dropped so much that-

Abby: Your missions support.

Nathaniel: Missions support because we were transitioning. And so we were, if you can imagine, four boys, I have four boys, and we are just, every week is like in debt and at the time I didn’t have no confidence. Like, all I knew my whole life was, I was going to be a missionary. And so the self-confidence, the, I didn’t feel like I had any gifts or abilities in a sense. So I lived, like you’ve talked before about fear. Um, I know fear. Fear was a good friend of mine.

Abby: Even at that point in your life?

Nathaniel: Oh, very much so. Um, what happened was, the next, God dealt with that in the next 9… 7 years at Rawhide. Or 9 years, I think it was.

Abby: How old were you wen you were living at Grandpa’s, sleeping on the couch, you were drilling wells, four boys…

Nathaniel: Um, jeepers. That was, uh, I think I was like 29, 28, 29.

Abby: Okay. So your late 20’s, haven’t even entered your 30’s yet. You have four kids. You’re transitioning from missions, which is all you knew how to do. And you’re like, sleeping on your parents’ couch, trying to make ends meet.

Nathaniel: Yeah, when I had work. So in the time, you know, I’m stressed beyond belief. I can’t, I don’t see, I’m just struggling. The only thing I got is God. And at the time, you know, four boys, that created some different stresses in our marriage and where we were at. And then now I lose somewhat my identity as being a missionary, or doing X, Y, and Z. I think it kind of became my identity. I thought that’s what I was doing my whole life. That’s what I felt called to. And now it’s done. So in the time, I couldn’t see God had a bigger purpose in the whole ordeal. So I finally arrive at Rawhide, and funny story, like the second day, I think it was like the first week, I’m running across a parking lot, I’m new at this job, and, I don’t know, I think it was snow or something, and I hit a- and I wipe out, sprain my ankle so bad, and you know how you want to get up real fast and look like you’re cool? I sprained it so bad I couldn’t hardly walk, and that was my like, my first week. I was not only embarrassed, and then I’m like, “Oh, I just got this job,” you know, and, but what ended up happening is, my whole life because of how I was raised, you earn respect, and I’ve always been respected because I’m a pretty honest, straightforward- maybe that’s a Melton thing sometimes too much, but, you know, we kind of live pretty transparent, or we don’t have much to hid. We’re like, “Here I am!” Sometimes that’s too much for people.

Abby: I mean, yeah.

Nathaniel: Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, there’s a process, I think, that you learn a good balance of it, or we, we constantly learn, but there was a, there was a point where I got to working, like working with the boys, was one thing there are, they were adjudicated, you, so they’re, they’re court ordered to the facility. It’s a military style program. Um, so right away, I mean, we’re getting up in the morning doing PT, um, at that point, you know, at that point I think I was like, 270, I was not 270 like, you know… yeah, I was not in the running shape. And we were doing two miles, and we’re doing like push-up, you know, push-ups, sit-ups, and we’re doing along with these kids. We’re getting up early. So I started work early. So that was a new thing, because everything in ministry or missions or whatever, you’re doing late at night. So we, yeah, it was like a whole different thing. I remember on my way to work almost hitting curbs in town, like the median curbs, like you’d have those little island things with signs… I mean, I’d be falling asleep. And you know how people say, well you know, “After a while you get used to it!” No. I think it was like seven years before, like now, now I like, more, you know, I like mornings now, and now I’m back in, but now I’m in ministry! You know, like, it took me forever. Like it was so dumb, you know? I’d be off the road. How I never had an accident is a miracle.

Um, but we get there and what happened is, um, I believe at the moment I couldn’t see it, I got there and I’m no longer everything that I had as a strength. That I thought I had as a strength. You know, I could earn respect, I worked hard, I was, I was sincere… I had a lot of maybe flaws and immaturity, or whatever, but people could usually see a heart and give you kudos for at least having a heart to do something. And everything was stripped away. Everything that I thought was a strength I was either mocked or minimized in. And the bar set so high. And I’m, if you can get like 10 out of 10 stars for a review, that’s what I’m going to shoot for. And so if somebody says, “Well, you really only have 4 out of 10,” you know, you get crushed. I mean, I’m crushed. I’m working my tail off.

Anyhow, what ended up happening is, we, I had a program manager that, I just had some people over me that was just really hard. Let’s just put it that way. And I mean, I was crushed. I think I went into a depression… talking to one of my boys, and he said, he calls it the zombie years because I was home every night but what happened was, everything in you, because you’re on your A-Game like 100% because you’re working with these troubled youth that are rascals, right? I mean, they’re there for a reason. So we’d take them out on the job site and we’d be working with them, splitting wood, I mean, they have mauls and axes and I’m working with, you know, that in itself is exciting, right? I remember, I’m cutting down this tree, and I look up just for a second, and this kid just wanders right where this tree is going to go down, and I’m like, “Hey…” you know, like I could have killed the kid! And, and, he literally, I mean, cutting wood, I don’t know what got into him, and he’s right where the tree is about to fall. And I’m halfway cut through it and I just happen to look up and it was… it was constant where you’re on a high alert level there. And I had some people that seemed like were always trying to sabotage me. I don’t know why, at the time. I don’t know why. I think if there was a way to get me off track, or, I mean, I thought I was going to be fired at one point. In fact, one time I got suspended without pay, and that just shook my world, because, like, you know, that doesn’t happen, right? I mean, and it was a situation.

So I’m going through this entire time, I’m probably going into a depression, so I would work, go home, sit in my La-Z-Boy, and veg on TV. And, I, at the time I didn’t think I was depressed, um, so I was going through this time, um, now married life is good, I’m home, I’m present… but the rest of my life, like, you know me as a pretty outgoing… people probably wouldn’t know me that know me, like, that I was pretty much an introvert at that point in my life. I didn’t think I had the, I don’t think I had the capacity to be with people and that part of my strength, that’s what brings me life as being around people and that’s part of my strength, that’s what brings me life, is being around people.

Abby: Yeah, and I can relate to that, like, that’s part of what we were talking about at the bar, is, I was like, I love conversations with people. I love talking to people. And like, right now, being around people gives me anxiety. Like I want to, like, you know, leave.

Nathaniel: Yeah. I think I had that because of some of these individuals. Now, as far as the top-down leadership style, like, I couldn’t, I mean, I couldn’t earn a favor. I couldn’t even get lucky, you know? But everybody alongside me appreciated and appreciated me. So there was some there. But in that, I would literally, it was, and all I could think of is the two weeks of vacation I had I was going to get away. And that would be going to Canada with, you know, your dad, my dad, and our boys, and your brothers and then coming up for deer hunting, gun deer hunting, and I’d save that whole time for those two weeks, and I’d get done with that and then just be looking forward to get through- all I could think of was, “Okay, in November, I’m going to go,” so spring and fall- or, winter, or fall, but I, I couldn’t hang, I wouldn’t hang out with people. I didn’t think I had the capacity. I was done. I’ll give you an example. We’d come up here, and the other great thing about this whole thing was, we were so absolutely broke in debt up to our eyeballs, so everything that I had wen I lived up here, um, I could go hunting, fishing, go do whatever, do my hobbies, I’m living three and a half hours, four hours away from here, um… we did the Dave Ramsey thing, so it was in the envelope. If it wasn’t in the envelope, there was no cash for gas.

Abby: (Laughs) I tried that. It’s hard.

Nathaniel: Hey, listen. There was no cash for gas. It was like, “I’m not going anywhere.” And so that was also on top of all this, because we were in so much debt, and so I wasn’t coming up here. But when I could come up here, Saturday night, I was already thinking about work on Monday. So the anxiety, the stress, trying to get the game face on because I just knew it was game face for the 30, for the, all that 40 hours of being there, right? Um…

Abby: Well, when you feel like you can’t, when you feel like you never measure up, which it sounds like is what you were struggling with-

Nathaniel: Oh, absolutely.

Abby: Like, it’s exhausting where you’re at. You feel like you’re at the end of your rope because you’re like, “I don’t even know how to be good enough. What can I do? What can I change? What-” like, “Tell me what you want me to do.”

Nathaniel: It was exactly that. I, that’s how it was. I mean, my reviews were always less than, I remember getting raises of like, four cents, and I’m like, “What was the point?” you know, it was almost like you’re, you know, again, I was, I was looking through a keyhole focus, because, I mean, I’m holding on to God. It’s all I got. And thankfully, at this time, like, we had some challenges in our marriage, but at this time, our marriage is good. If that would have happened, I think, I think I would have been in the loony bin, to be honest, because I was so leveled. And at the time, I’m like, “What, why?” You know, you ask those questions, like, “Why?” Inside you’re going, “Why do I feel like,” you know, I don’t know how you feel, but I’m asking, “Why? Why?” Because I know this isn’t my norm. Why do I feel like this? Why is this happening? Why? You’re asking God. “Why?” to God. You’re asking, “Why, what’s going on?” But because our marriage was good, that, and because we were doing good, my home life was like 10 out of 10.

Abby: You said that your kids said that those were your absent years, though, like, your “zombie years”.

Nathaniel: So in that time, like, for Josiah, for my one son, Josiah, he called it, “Hey Dad, those zombie years…” and I’m like, “What?” I think it was, I, but I didn’t realize that at that moment because I was still… there was a period of time when because of Dave Ramsey, you find different motivations to find money. So I learned how to coach, you know, because, it was funny, this actually helped me to be more entrepreneurial-minded. Actually, I know you’ve talked about it, but when you do things with cash, and we’re barely making it, so we buy a house after being there, first house we ever buy. We’re already in debt, and they let us buy a house. So now it’s like, “Oh, my…” right? So I have a, and Christy stay at home, she was a stay at home mom, our values, and she was doing some, like, eBay at one time, babysitting at another time, but, and I’m thinking, “I want to go to Canada.” I want to do some of these things still. And she’s like, “Well if you can find another way… but right now this is our budget.” And so I’m like, “Oh, there’s another way.” I remember the first thing I did at that time, aluminum cans were like, they were really high, and I’m walking, I’m thinking, “Okay, I’m in the ditches picking up beer cans…” whatever, bees, and buzzing, and we, and we’re, remember with the boys, we had cans all in our driveway, and I’m crushing cans, and I’m thinking, “Alright, this is, this is a long ways to get to…”

Abby: Canada?

Nathaniel: Yeah, I mean, uh, you needed…

Abby: “Crushing cans for Canada.”

Nathaniel: Yeah! Well, I never thought of it that way, but yes, uh, and-

Abby: I’m kind of a marketing girl, too.

Nathaniel: Oh man, that’s good. So what happened was… when you stat thinking about, what it did was, it was beginning to unleash some creativity. Now, I’ve always liked creative in drawing and photography, videography, but when you start thinking about, “How can I o something extra?” you begin to unlock certain doors. And when you’re desperate, you don’t even, the fear kind of takes a back seat in some way. So I opened, the next door was, I started coaching, and it was enough, my coaching job would pay for the Canada trip. So, voila. I found a solution.

Abby: Yeah, and like you said, desperation sometimes makes you go, “Well, I can’t even be afraid here because, like, I have no more options.”

Nathaniel: Or the desire’s so strong you don’t even, you, you, you don’t care.

Abby: Yeah, you’re so locked on mission that you go, like, “Well, we’re trying it.”

Nathaniel: Yeah. I mean, I was coaching before I moved out there, football and wrestling, oddly enough with your dad, um, and I loved it, and I thought, “Well, that I can do.” So I found a way, started coaching junior- so I became the head, um, junior high coach and started coaching and helped out with high school. Um, just got involved with the community, opened some doors there, and, uh, so that was cool, but then as time goes on, and now this is certain events that I pick out now that I did in the moment. So I’m thinking Canada, but I’m getting, at one point, I thought, actually, I was going to have to get a lawyer. Because always, my job was always threatened, in a sense. And I thought, we bought a house, what’s going to happen? I’ll lose everything. So you’re thinking, “I’ve got to have this job.” You know? “I’ve got to get out of debt.” We got all these things… and the pressure was so strong in that regard, too, because if you lose your job, now what? I don’t know how to, in my mind, I thought I didn’t know how to do anything. I didn’t, you know, I didn’t have a value. It shouldn’t be about yourself, but you need to have some sort of sense of, you know, “I can do this.” And it’s worth it.

You know, a business person like Grandpa, you had him on, and he can sell himself. He can sell anything, in fact. And I love it. You know, I grew up watching, watching them sell stuff. And we have so many one-liners and laughs with my dad- or grandpa. And I love it.

Abby: But if you don’t have that identity or self-worth, it’s really hard to show up into things, particularly when they’re under pressure.

Nathaniel: Yeah, absolutely. So here I am in debt. I don’t think I’m good at anything. I’m beat up. I feel like my job’s always at risk. Thankfully, God had a couple good friends. And I wouldn’t say we did a lot, but it was one of those things that grew really slow, and really good friendships I think do that, because you’ve got to earn respect. You’ve got to be able to go past the weather, the sports… I call it the three-in-the-morning kind of friend. Everybody needs a three-in-the-morning kind of friend, where you can call them, they’re going to answer, and they’re going to be there, and that’s rare.

Abby: It takes time to cultivate it.

Nathaniel: …takes time to cultivate. I think, you know, the last podcast, a couple podcasts back or whatever, whenever this comes out, you talked about it. And it takes work from two people. And I, even at this time, that was all gone, because in missions, you get friends and you think you’re friends, they leave, move away, that friendship is gone. I mean, I got to a point where I didn’t even know if I knew how to be a friend. And so you, so everything was being stripped away, and I can’t see a purpose in this. I can’t see the value. So at a certain point, and at this time, I mean, before I even took this job, like, I was leading stuff in my 20's. I was leading, I mean, I was leading a whole department. I was overseeing an entire department or short-term outreaches… I mean, I was overseeing two motor coaches, you know, maybe a, close to eight to a dozen staff.

Abby: Well. you’d been all over the world sharing the gospel.

Nathaniel: All over the world doing stuff like that, leading stuff, creating things, starting things, which one of those was taking kids up to Canada to a fly-in lake that we did through the public school. Fundraised the entire trip, like, I raised rods, reels, boats, everything.

Abby: Right.

Nathaniel: And I get here and everything’s just gone.

Abby: It’s so interesting that you could have come from a background of actually having major accomplishments in your files and then get to that point and feel like you didn’t have any value.

Nathaniel: Yeah, and there was a reason, I’ll get, we’ll talk to, but now I know, in that moment, in that season, I couldn’t, you know, I couldn’t see straight.

Abby: Yeah, but, it’s one of the things that’s so crazy about fear and crazy about just insecurity and identity, is, that one would think that your accomplishments help battle that, and it doesn’t always do that.

Nathaniel: No, fear, you know, I like the one song, there’s a song, the line is, “Fear is a liar,” right? And I, and you overcompensate for fear, now I know, because fear was like my best friend, my best friend of me or whatever you want to call it. I mean, fear. I know fear. And it wasn’t until I moved back to Spooner, um, that I got free from it. Um, but that’s later on in the story, so yeah. Yeah, in that, you know, there was just a lot of things that was going on that I couldn’t see. So, and I believe that it was intentional, but in a moment, I couldn’t see it. So everything’s being stripped away.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: Um, during that time, like, the “zombie years” as he calls them, and I’m like, oh my goodness. I just found it. Like, he just told me, my son just told me that, like, a few months ago. And I’m like, “Oh.” It kind of hits me because you feel like, “Oh, what could I have done different?” Because I feel like that really impacted, you know, at that point.

Abby: Impacted your kids.

Nathaniel: Yeah, like big time. And you do everything you can. And you know, there’s no perfect parent. There’s no perfect manual for your kid. You just do your best and ask God for grace. And I felt like, you know, my mom and dad, I felt like, you couldn’t ask for better parents. So that was my standard. And then when I couldn’t measure up to that, again, you feel like you’re a failure. Like, “Man, I didn’t ever do these things my kids are doing.” Like, yeah, it just messed with me. But in those times, I’d come home because I see what happens now that I know the lie was. My body was telling me I need rest. I need sleep. And that’s why I think I was in a depression but didn’t know it, was I kept telling myself that, and then pretty soon you’re lying to yourself because your body’s telling you you need rest, you need sleep so you can go do work, or do that job. So I was like in this cocoon and survival mode.

And so, so as years went by, some of the things that began to break, it was this: after so many years, and finally, I, I filed some grievances, um, because it got so bad, and so I was really, when you’re angry you see people, right, you see people as your enemy, and you go and that can be your focus, um, but there’s a verse in the Bible that really speaks, you know, “We fight not against flesh and blood,” and the most in that time, I really thought, “These people…” right? And, but it wasn’t, now I go, “Oh, no big deal.” They were just characters in the story that had to be there. Like, I needed them. And it’s awesome that I had them, but I did not feel that. So I filed a grievance. I was told I couldn’t file a grievance. I was told I couldn’t see HR. I was like, I was living in a bizarre movie, right? I was living in this, like, “What is going on?” But what happened was, because I stood up for some things, I had people going through my office, I couldn’t prove who. So I started leaving things on my desk. I don’t know if this made a difference, but I like talked to the lawyer, get the realtor, because I knew somebody was reading all my stuff. So for one year after I filed this grievance, everybody left me alone that was giving me guff. And in that time, my wife and I were talking, it was like, “Well, if you can find another job that pays the same, because now you’re six, seven, or five, six, seven- our Dave Ramsey skills were excelling, we were doing what we could do, right? And she was awesome. Like, we weren’t that far from the valley, so she could go to Sam’s Club. I remember she would buy ketchup, like, these bottles were huge. And because some of the boys like ketchup, and then there was barbecue and ranch dressing. We’d get in the case, like, these huge bottles, and I remember she’d put them in the little bottles. I mean, we couponed, or I shouldn’t say we but she couponed. So, but we’re finally gaining some momentum and getting, and then at that time, I feel like the Lord opened up a door for us to do foster care. So, um, that opened up a whole different way that we could minister to boys in our house and it also created an extra revenue, and, uh, Christy and I did that and between that, yeah, uh, we had some wonderful experiences with that, actually. And some hard ones, like, that’s just not easy, and so through that we started gaining momentum and things. We were getting to be envelope pros.

Abby: I love it! Envelope pros… I’ve done the Dave Ramsey stuff. It’s so hard, so good for conquering that.

Nathaniel: Well, it takes discipline, and the funniest thing was, like, you know, and he’s like basic common sense kind of per person I think for the most part. So the first thing he’s doing, and we, we were so cheap, we borrowed it from a friend, so it was video, and-

Abby: Oh, you borrowed the series? The CD?

Nathaniel: Yeah, we borrowed it, and, you know, it says, do a budget, so we, you write down everything, and I realized we were spending more than I was making and we were like, “Oh… Houston, we have a problem.” So, I, and that’s stressful, Christy and I are going down, you’re cutting everything you can cut, and we’re like “Oh, my…” um, but it’s still in that process we’re giving and tithing and doing what I feel like we believed in all through missions and our lives. So I think God honored that- not I think, I know God protected us in this storm. But even that, there was still purpose in all of that. So, yeah. We did the day. We did as much as we could. Like, our emergency fund. We’d get our taxes back and we’d put money in this emergency fund because we bought, because we had bought an old house, right?

Abby: I loved that house!

Nathaniel: It was so incredible. Like, I wish I could have, I wish I could have put wheels on it and brought it here, right, it was a cool house. Um, I miss it because we had a screened-in porch-

Abby: I loved that house! I loved your screen porch, I loved that house.

Nathaniel: I loved that, the swing that, we had a swing on the outside, big oak trees, it was, it was, it was really cool.

Abby: We only came down to visit you guys like a handful of times.

Nathaniel: I know, it was a bummer.

Abby: All I remember, and I have a bad memory, but all I remember is it was always “Pizza Fridays”, Christy would always make pizza on Fridays-

Nathaniel: I think you’re right.

Abby: Yup, it was “Pizza Fridays”, which I always thought was like the most fun idea ever, and like I remember just loving your house. It had like three levels, and the basement where the boys had like the movie room thing, and the cool upstairs and the screened-in porch and…

Nathaniel: It was a really cool, um, house that was really antique. I mean, it was all wood, oak trim, leaded original glass, some of the glass still had, like, surprised we didn’t break more windows than we did, but there was like the old glass where it’s not perfect. And you see the flaws. It did not heat very well. But the rest of it was, it was… but you know why she did that? Because when we did the budget, she made a menu and we just had to become disciplined in doing certain things. And it helped us communicate. And so we were really disciplined in how we did things.

Abby: That’s so funny, that as a kid I thought that was like, so fun. Like, “Pizza Friday”. So cool!

Nathaniel: Well, it is fun. I mean, who doesn’t like pizza? (laughs)

Abby: Well, yeah, but then it’s funny hearing, like, “Actually we did that intentionally to like…”

Nathaniel: I think so, I’d have to ask Christy though, I think that’s how it ended up being, like she would have certain things on certain days, um, but yeah, I think, I think that’s how it was.

Abby: That’s funny!

Nathaniel: Yeah. Um… so after about seven years, then finally it was like, Christy was saying like, well, because I didn’t think, um, you know, being up here, Christy wasn’t from up here, so I didn’t think she’d ever want to move back, um, but, but I think she just saw my commitment to family and it’s like, “Okay, hey, if we can find a job, if you can find a job that pays that much, go ahead.” And I was at a point like, I think I hit the bottom, where I was like, “Okay, I’m going to look for a job.” And I remember just applying for jobs and then praying, “God, if this is your will, open, help me do really good. But if it’s not your will, then shut the door.” So I applied for jobs up here, do really well in the interview and be like, “Yeah, just get the interview.” And either at the interview, it went, it just, I knew or I was a top person, or, but you just knew it was a closed door. All but one job that I applied for. So after, I don’t know, see, it was one, I think I applied for four or five jobs, right? Funny, this is a funny story. So I applied for Northwest Passage. Like, I mean, if you love kids and you have a, you get hired, right? Like, and I couldn’t even get hired. And I’m like, I know that now. I didn’t know that then, right? Because Caleb, you know, your uncle and my brother works there. And so I’m like, man I couldn’t even get a job, right? And I was like, “Ah, this is really…” but I’m like, “Okay, God.” I had enough faith to believe that ultimately my life is in His ands. And when you travel the world, you have to know that no matter where you go, that if you’re not in His hands, then what are you doing in the first place? Because some of the things that you do, you just got to trust God because there’s nothing else that’s going to save you but Him. So I had that relationship enough with God to go, “Okay, I trust you no matter what.” So it’s not meant to- I mean, it’s crushing when you don’t get hired or you go through an interview process…

Abby: Because this time you’re still battling with feeling worthless and just…

Nathaniel: Yeah, you know, it’s just like, it hurt. But I knew it was the answer to prayer. So I think there was enough grace there knowing, “Okay, that really stinks, that really hurts, but I trust that.” I think that, I think that I felt that way. There was a couple that I was like, pretty bummed. But there’s a country song that says, “Thank God for unanswered prayers.” And I look back at very one of those jobs I applied for and I think God for not allowing me to have those jobs. Even though I prayed, “God, if it’s not your will, you shut that door,” and He did. And I’m so thankful that they didn’t open up because it would have took my life on a whole different track. And so I am thankful that I didn’t get that. And it wasn’t right yet. And so there was a point where I said, “Okay, this is where I am.” I got to a point where I just surrendered to God and said, “Alright, I’m here. Doesn’t matter if life sucks. Doesn’t matter.” I’ve now built a resilience, or, I don’t know if that’s the right word, but I built, you have to be able to endure under that circumstance. And I was like, “Okay,” you know, “be content with wherever you’re at.” At this time, the boys were starting to get up in teenage years, and the thing that broke me a little bit out of the depression thing- so these things are kind of going in together like this an like a glove, you know, they’re going hand-in-hand-

Abby: Like tracks merging.

Nathaniel: Yeah, well we’re, well we’re trying to find a church or place or a place to suit the boys, and we’re, it’s just trying to find a place to connect, you know? And we came from a place, you know, from our church here and our supporting church was so friendly, so connected. And I thought that was everywhere, and that is not necessarily so where people are so connecting. And for lots of different reasons.

Abby: Yeah. But you had a community, both in like a church family, your actual family. Like that was all here.

Nathaniel: Yeah. And yeah, and I think people feel that when they move and you’re trying to build that community and you start all over in some regards and it’s hard. Some people a lot easier than others, and some people don’t want to break the ice, right? Like, ‘Well, nobody talked to me, so I’m not going to do X, Y, or Z. But in this time, I knew I needed the boys, needed to have more than just us going to church on Sunday. We wanted to get them into a youth group. And I literally, I remember just going, “They have to do this.” I know that because of just external forces, or peers, or school, or whatever, and I knew they needed more of an influence. And so I remember going, “I need to do this.” And so I forced, I really felt I had to force myself to take them to youth group. I don’t think nobody had a license. So I get there just going, “Oh,” you know, I felt like I’m a thousand pounds. Every step is so hard to take the step, but I knew it had to be done. Like, that was the overriding force. I’d get there, guess what happens? You’re around people. And all of a sudden, a little spark, a little flame of life, because now I’m talking to these people, and the people person that I used to be, it’s starting to come out. And pretty soon, the next thing you know, I’m helping out a little bit with youth group. Or, I’m present. Or I’m doing things. And there’d be like, a little bit of life. Like, it was like taking, you know, a couple of double espressos, and like, you could feel like, “Woo!” you know? And then you get home and it’s like, “Oh, I got to go work. Okay, game face, you know, get ready to go.” That friendship that I was telling you about with my friend Tim begins to grow pretty strong and a couple other guys at Rawhide.

Abby: It’s crazy, and I relate to this so much, how much fear and as you start to go down that spiral and like life gets really hard and circumstances, and you’re getting really hard you start to isolate and then in isolation, like you said, your body goes into survival mode, and survival mode can come out in multiple different formats, but like, for me too, it came out and like, I just want to isolate and I want rest and I want quiet and I want to not be around people. Well, what that starts to do is, it gets you in a super dangerous spot.

Nathaniel: Very.

Abby: The antidote is actually opposite to what your body is telling you to do.

Nathaniel: Yes, very much so. And I didn’t know, you know, I didn’t know that until I came out of that. Like, there wasn’t no book, or, somebody told me that. I, I just couldn’t see that. And right, I think I’m like, and I think like, “I’m okay in doing this. Nobody’s telling me it’s not okay to isolate. They understand.” No, because there was people who understood some of the crazy things that were going on in my life. Like, “That’s not fair. That’s not right. That shouldn’t happen. Like, that’s crazy.” So I was actually being affirmed almost in the way I was doing things, in a sense because I’m still loving, I’m not being, and I’m not being a crazy person. Thankfully, you know, I’m not into any substance stuff. I’m not into anything weird or addictive in that sense. But just isolating, quiet, I need to veg, and it was totally a lie. And it is. It’s like, again, it was fear that like if you don’t have this, this is what’s going to happen. And it was completely opposite, like you’re saying. Absolutely true. And fear, like I said, would have been my best friend of me for most of my life. Going all the back to when I was a child, afraid of the dark, afraid of things. I mean, here I, and so in my fear, I’d overcompensate for other things. So, you know, lift weights, look strong, but inside I’m the scared little boy, right? I really, I realized a lot about myself and then I realized a lot about people around me too; that exteriors don’t, that’s a, that can be a façade. Like, I put on a façade but I was so scared I didn’t want nobody to know I was scared. So I could talk good, I could look a certain way or whatever, um, but that, but inside, fear in different ways. Now certain things God was breaking chains of fear, like, afraid of the dark, that was leaving, I had to learn to overcome fear, um, and there are several things that I began to learn to overcome fear.

Abby: But sometimes, you said, when you, like, when you walked into the church building it felt like a thousand pound weight every step. I am, I’ve, you know this, I’ve struggled with fear. Sometimes in facing it, in doing it, it feels like, “This couldn’t be harder.” Like, the walking, this couldn’t be scarier. So it’s hard because in facing fear, you’re, it’s, it’s terrifying, it’s like the very thing that makes you want to run for the hills and you know you have to face it anyways and it’s so hard.

Nathaniel: It, it’s a kryptonite, because, it, it… fear, I believe fear comes from the Father of Lies, Satan. And what does the Bible say? Fear comes to steal, kill, and destroy. Fear is a life-killer. Now, learning how to overcome it, you know, forcing yourself to do things, again, at this point I don’t think I’m depressed. I think I’m kind of normal. And so that was going side-by-side, just going, “Okay,” I look for jobs, I’m done. So this is about year eight, nine of being at Rawhide. Now out of debt. So we’re finding some victories. So I went to the Valley of the Shadow of Death. I mean, I felt like I was on hell’s, you know, knocking at the gate. Like, “Hey, could you send any more heat? I need a little more.” You know, I don’t know, it was just nuts. Like, “Oh, yeah,” I was like, I felt like a marshmallow. Just roasted, burnt, scorched. So, we’re not out of debt for the first time other than our house. So it’s like, just different things are building a little.

Abby: Budgeting works!

Nathaniel: Oh, it works.

Abby: Snaps.

Nathaniel: And I’m not saying I did everything to exact, we did everything we could do and then built upon that and then became disciplined. Because you can learn all the right tools, but if you don’t have the discipline to use them, what does it matter? Because you find yourself circling all the way back to the same problem, I mean, I remember just feeling happy cutting carbs, doing whatever, getting to a place where we were at. Um, so at the time I said “Okay God, we’re going to do it, I’m not applying for any more jobs, I surrender, I’m yours…” and it was a short time after and I can’t remember when, is, Caleb calls me, my brother Caleb calls me, and he’s like, “Hey, you’ve got to apply for this job.” And I’m like, “Um, nah, I’m good.” You know, I’m, I know what God’s saying, you know, I’m like, every door is shut, I’m good, I’m done. And he’s like, “No!” You know, I mean, he was so persistent. He’s like, “I’m applying for this job,” and I’m like “Why would I apply for a job if you’re applying for it?”

Abby: He was applying for it too?

Nathaniel: Oh yeah! And I’m like…

Abby: That’s such a Caleb thing!

Nathaniel: Yeah, it was like, I love it because, and he was just so passionate, and he won me over. Like right? But I’m like…

Abby: It’s such a Caleb strength. Like such a…

Nathaniel: Oh my goodness, like, yeah. And I was like, “Well, what if…” so I’m thinking, “What if I get it and you don’t?” and then now we’re not, because at that time I would say that my two best friends were my two brothers, and then my dad being just everything as a person on earth that my dad was, everything, you know, I could call him up, he’d give me wisdom, or, you know, so I’m like, “Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. I could call grandpa. You could call grandpa, and I could call my dad if he hears the phone.”

Abby: Right, yeah.

Nathaniel: Yeah, you should hear his ringtone. I jump every time it goes off. Have you heard it?

Abby: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah.

Nathaniel: Yeah.

Abby: And he still might miss it.

Nathaniel: (Laughs) That’s funny. So there, I’m like, Caleb, but he was so convincing, because I didn’t want to wreck the relationship with Caleb, my brother. Because, you know, we could fight, we could laugh at each other and mock each other. And I, and in this time, too, what I realized, and I hated it about myself, was every time I’d come home, because of my pain, I’d bring my pain into relationships. The fact that my, you know, family still loved me, like my brother Andrew and Caleb, because I think I was just rude and harsh to a lot of people. People at the cabin…

Abby: You definitely were scary.

Nathaniel: Uh, yeah.

Abby: And I don’t have a ton of mem, like, you guys were a away for a lot of my life, but like, you were by far my most, like, terrifying…

Nathaniel: Oh man, I didn’t know that.

Abby: Not because I didn’t love you…

Nathaniel: The crazy uncle… (laughs)

Abby: It wasn’t even crazy, it was just like, intimidating. Like you were aggressive, and it was just like such a, I just didn’t know what to do or respond or say or, you know.

Nathaniel: Oh man, I, and you know, those things are good in the right context and I didn’t bring the right, I didn’t use those things in the right way, and it was just out of pain, and thankfully I didn’t burn bridges with people. I mean, I think I hurt people. I know that, like, in Canada, everything was magnified, the pain in my life… and it seemed like I wanted to project it on people. It wasn’t, it’s almost like you feel helpless in tat. You’re doing it, you’re not trying to do it, but you do it. And you’re apolo-

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: So it was a hard thing. But Caleb was like, “No, you got to do it.” And I’m like, “Okay.” So I’m like, alright, whatever. And I’m like, “Christy, what do you think about this?” Okay, you know, I’m thinking. And the thing is, again, fear came in. Like, I asked him what the job was. Well, it’s a job working with adult men in prison and coming out of prison and teaching them these skills. And I’m like, “Well, I can’t do that! I’ve only worked with kids.” I mean, this is how fear works, right? “You can’t do that. You can’t do that. You’re not able, that you don’t, you’re not gifted, you don’t have that degree, you don’t have that certificate…” Well, I do, I send, I finally go, okay Caleb, I’m gonna do, like, he was relentless, and so I did it and I get a call and I get an interview. So, and what was hard was when I did an interview, I did take a vacation day. I couldn’t tell anybody at work. Like, I didn’t want the work, I didn’t want that to come back and I didn’t want it to be retribution because somebody thought I was looking, or at least I thought that was in my mind. And that might have just been in my own mind. So I drive the night, spend the night at Grandma and Grandpa’s, and then the interview was in Ashland, so another hour and a half, you know, and I think I had to wear a suit and tie, and, you know, I was like, “I don’t wear suit and ties,” you know, at weddings and that’s it. And that’s even funny itself now that I’m a pastor, you know. Now it’s like, “Hey, this is cool!” I don’t know. I’m probably the dorkiest guy in a suit and tie. But now it’s like, “Oh, this is cool.” So, I go up there, do really, I’m shocked because I’m not like, had a lot of interviews, I walk in the door, it’s my turn, I get up there early, you know, you’re nervous. You’re thinking all the stuff. And on thing was the job description. I went to go back and look what it was I was applying for and it was all gone. And so now I’m thinking, “Oh my goodness. I don’t even know what this job is and I’m interviewing for this job.” And so, um, the creative wheels are turning fast. And we had a mutual friend, um, a mutual friend who worked for Northwest, um, who was working at this program, and um, Tasha was, I think she was my advocate behind the scenes. In fact, I know she was. Thank you Tasha. So I go in there, I walk in the room and it’s like six people and every time I gave an answer they’re writing notes. I think one person was on their phone. I was just intimidated. But I’m playing can’t say too much can’t say too little.

Abby: I’ve only had a few interviews but they’re horrible.

Nathaniel: Oh my gosh. Six people. I was expecting like two or whatever, a previous experience. It’s a whole table I walked into, like a whole boardroom of people, and I’m thinking, “Don’t blow it by saying too much, don’t blow it by saying too little.” Well, I was a little reserved. And Caleb tells me, or Tasha tells me, “They thought you were reserved.” And I was being billed as like this outgoing, crazy, kind of, you know, this guy can do blah, blah, blah. You know? And I really, and so I was like, “Oh, man…” I felt bad. But I got a second interview. And I’m like, alright, alright. It’s down to two people, and now they said, I got to do it by Zoom. This is the beginning days of like Zoom or whatever it happened to be. And I’m like, I’m a people person. Like, I read people. And I’m like, so here I am, I find a computer, I find a time to get away again from my job to do an interview, and I can only see one person, I know there’s more people in the room. But my thought was, you have nothing to lose. Throttle down one hundred percent, just do it, you have nothing to lose. Um, it’s the beginning where, I didn’t know it at the time, but I’m beginning to break fear, um, I’m beginning to have some resilience, I’m beginning to have a little bit of life. I don’t know it at the time, but I surrendered everything. And so, um, we do this thing back and forth, I’m just who you know me as, like, I’m just being very charismatic, passionate…

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: I’m, I’m, I’m laying it on thick. I’d probably hate to see a video of it, they had to record. The funniest thing is, they told me years later was, the HR guy told me later, he goes, “Can I tell you something funny?” I’m like, “Yeah, of course you can!”

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: He’s like, “You remember your interview?” I’m like, “Yeah,” He’s like, “We promised we’d never say anything to you…” I’m like, “Come on, man!” And he goes, “When you got done, I know your son was in Alaska and you would do Zoom with him or whatever, Facebook, you know.” And I didn’t realize it, but I went autopilot in nerves and I said “I love you” before, I didn’t know that. So you know when you close off of something, I told them all, “I love you.” (Abby laughs) They told me years later, they all laughed out of their chairs. Like they thought it was funny. Thankfully, they knew I had a son serving in Alaska at the time, Jacob was serving in Alaska with the army. He told me, I laughed, because I didn’t remember that. So, and even with all that, and-

Abby: That’s so funny. You’re like, “Bye, I love you.”

Nathaniel: Oh, man, yeah, I must have thought of it about for a second and then totally forgot it thinking they never knew, and I don’t even remember it actually, nd so he tells me that, I laugh so hard in the office, I’m like, that’s pretty, I was a little embarrassed, but I was like, that’s funny, you know, it’s really funny, and they hired me. Yeah, um, so they hire me and uh, as, how, so I, now things are moving, we’re moving back, I never thought I’d be able to move back with family, you know. I knew my mom and dad as they’re getting older, I want to be there, I wanted to be around family, we’re all, I mean, pretty much everybody’s kind of based here. And it’s gonna happen. Like, it’s unbelievable. I get to the job and this whole job was in transition, so like, there’s transition in Madison, but to make a long- so I had several things happen because of my first experience getting hired at Rawhide. I get there and nobody can tell me what- I’m in an office cube- I’m in my office and nobody knows what I’m supposed to do, they just send me to all these trainings and online, you know, webinars. You know, those are exciting. And I’m taking everything I can do, going to every, but the transition down in Madison, nobody can tell me what I’m really supposed to do. So after my new job.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: So I’m excited because I’m here. Well I don’t know if you remember this, when we moved here because we couldn’t sell our house right away, we moved in with you guys.

Abby: Well I remember that.

Nathaniel: Oh boy. Yeah, we lived in the basement. That was a lot of Meltons in one house.

Abby: A lot of Meltons.

Nathaniel: That was funny. That was funny. So I’m sitting and I’m like, “Oh, man. This isn’t good.” So I reached out to Caleb and say, “Caleb, is there any part-time work at passage?” “Oh, yeah, absolutely.” So I start working there because I’m like, if this job ends, I learned a skill. I call it having a backup to the backup to the backup. So like with a job or finances or just in principle, I try to have a backup to the backup to the backup. So I started working an odd job there because I’m thinking, “If nobody really tells me how to do this job, nobody can hire somebody to be in their office doing nothing all day, like this doesn’t work,” and it was just slowly rolling, but I was freaking out, right, um, because like, I really, like, I’m supposed to figure it out, and I don’t even know who to… I’m even afraid to call people on the phone, like, that was not my thing.

Abby: Yeah. And you had just come from a traumatic work experience.

Nathaniel: Oh my goodness, so, so I’m like, uh, but everyone’s like, “Oh, cool, you’re fine…” and I’m like, “Uh, no.”

Abby: Because you had just busted your butt in a job and been constantly told-

Nathaniel: Oh, it was intense.

Abby: So then the idea to transfer to something else and have them be like, “It’s fine!” And you’d be like, “What, no?”

Nathaniel: Oh man. No, it was like, “No…” Uh, but things picked up, you know, it took like three or four months, and it was hard. So what was crazy hard as my job, in, in my perspective, and how I was looking at life as hard as it was. And it was the hardest time in my life. This job becomes the opposite. Like, everything I touch turns to gold. Everything, I, like, I’m like, it’s so abnormal. Like it was so, it was so crazy, because it’s like, this is not real. Like everything just at my job, like, I’m, you know, it was opposite, completely opposite. But in the process, what I learned and came to reconcile with fear and some other things. But it took a while. Then I realized, you know, I could look back and go, “Oh, maybe I was depressed.” Here’s some things as you pick up some things. “Oh, yeah, this was fear, because of fear,” or to being depressed or whatever. I began to go, “Oh.” And then I began to face things, because I was, part of the fear is a failure. Part of fear can be you’re afraid to fail. And I began, and it was probably where I wasn’t how old, I was getting to that point, going like, if, like, I always want to go out west and do some hunting in the mountains or do some things. I really don’t have, you know, I have Tim who’s kind of a close run, but now I move here. I’m thinking, “That’s over, it’s never going to stay,” because that’s just been my whole life: you move away, friendship over. But, um, I move here, um, and I’m like, “Okay,” there’s a certain point before I even got this job, I’m like, you know, what I’m gonna, I’m just gonna do it. If I fail, I’m gonna learn. And I’m like, I’ve always liked learning, like when you fail, you, like for me, I learned the most when I fail. And I either adapt or twist or like, “Oh, yeah, I don’t want to do that again, I tried it, cool, but it really just pancaked, it didn’t work.” Or, “It was fun, but I don’t want to do it again.” Or, “Wow, that was learning, but it didn’t work out because some things just don’t work out.” And I began to then change the way I looked at life. Like, I decided I’d just do a bunch of different things, like side jobs, or I started guiding for bear, or just do, I’ll like, I’ll try it, you know, “What happens if I fail?” There’s kind of an adrenaline though when you put yourself out there because it’s like, “Do or die.” I began to learn and I’m like, I love to learn. So I started losing fear. Like, I wouldn’t accept fear anymore because even if I failed but I learned something, then it’s not failure.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: And they say that, like, if you read books and all that, you know all that stuff, but until you believe it? And then I began to go, “Wow.” Um, I then, and when fear knocks once and a while, you know sometimes I go into the woods in the dark and I want the light on, I don’t want to scare anything and then I have a hoot owl or a bird will flush out and I’ll come out of my boots. Or I’ll hear a strange sound, but I would tell myself, I’ve learned to distract my mind from fear, or tell myself I’m not going to be afraid, or I’ll start memorizing or I’ll sing a song or I start doing something to totally control my mind, tell my mind what to think or steer it from fear. Because I know fear. That was my whole life. In some regards, some people wouldn’t say that, but it was. And I’m in some scary situations where I wasn’t afraid. It was just God, but a lot of my life was fear. So I began to change some things and began to try things.

Abby: I very much have experienced that needing to like, feel fear. Like even how you were talking about in the woods, like you can feel fear and decide to speak to it and say, “I recognize that I’m feeling this and I’m going to decide to respond this way instead.”

Nathaniel: Yeah, I, uh, I didn’t know it at the time, I think it was God that He taught me some hacks, some ninja skills, like, I go in there and because I’m a very imaginative person, I could hear or think things and I would have to tell myself, I would just start praying, or I’d start going, I’d start quoting every scripture I’d ever memorized. And I’m not saying it was a long list or it was a big list like I’m some great memorizer, but I’d start going down there or I’d start thinking about something, I would just think about something, I would distract my own mind from the fear. And then, you know, I’d get to my deer stand, I’m like, you know, like hugged the tree. It’s like, “Oh,” it’s probably the only time I’ll have been a tree hugger. He’s like, “Oh, I’m here,” and get up and then watch the light go. And then it was like a victory. And you keep building, you got to build upon those things in facing fear. And once you learn the skills, you go back to the skill to help you not be afraid again.

Abby: It’s kind of like a muscle. Like, you have to train the muscle of the confidence in the faith. Like, I think faith is like a muscle, and you have to build it that way, which means you might start with a five pound weight and then you’re like, “Oh, that really hurt,” and then before you know you’re doing 10 and before you know what you’re doing 50 and, you know?

Nathaniel: I think so, and that, and it just got to be a point where you begin to build, you’re building your toolbox in faith, because I believe everything for me revolves around my relationship with the Lord, so, it, it was, so you quote scriptures, find scriptures on fear, and, um, knowing who, what, and then begin to distract my mind, not that, I look at it all from God, so I begin to distract my mind from those things. And then, like I was, like, even then trying new things, I began to just say, “No, I love learning. I know the truth.” The truth is that you learn more from failure than just always being successful. Even going back to that job, I had to go through that time. I had to go through it. Get rid of pride, get to the bottom to where I trust God, knowing that no matter where, if I, I just knew now that if God has me someplace, He can save me. Or if not, then I need to be in that hard place and that He’ll give me everything I need to be, to make it through that hard place, and that there’s life there. If it’s for somebody else, or it’s for me, or if it’s training, now I like it when it’s a lot funner and not easier, and when everything you touch turns to gold, so to speak. I love that. But you may learn a little, I’m not saying I didn’t learn during that time, but then in looking back, you know, I don’t know if I said this, but it was like God took all the paint off, all the varnish, and then got to the finish. And, that’s when, and at the same time, ironically, I say, “I surrender, I’m done looking for jobs,” job shows up. I look at it all and go, “Oh, wow God.” And now that I look back at stuff, I’m like, “Oh, wow, I needed that.”

Abby: It’s funny, because it’s like, I, these aren’t even, our stories are not the same at all. And that’s how I feel about when my marriage fell apart and had some really hard years and walking through divorce. And when you’re in it, you’re asking all the questions. Like why did this happen, how did I get here, I have no value, I don’t understand what you’re doing, and you’re so confused. Like “Why did You lead me to this place? I thought I heard You right. I thought this was what I was supposed to do. Why is this all falling apart and why is it this hard.” And when you’re trying so hard and it’s still not working and it’s not until you look back that you go, “That was beautiful grace in my life because God was running after things in Abby that had to be uprooted.” Like, they had to be.

Nathaniel: Yeah, because if you have a faulty foundation, what are you going to build off? It’s going to crumble anyhow someday, even though we tend to think that we’re awesome-sauce and we don’t need that. I mean, that was in my case. And yet it’s funny, because I’m afraid of, I don’t feel like I don’t have no value, but I got to a place where now I’m a magnet to take on things. And my growth, I think, then God caused some certain things to happen.

Abby: It was like, exponential growth.

Nathaniel: Oh.

Abby: You ever see those graphs where it’s like nothing, nothing, nothing, and then all the sudden it’s like, woo!

Nathaniel: (Chuckles) I felt like that. Like, I felt like I was on a rocket, so to speak.

Abby: Yeah. And it wouldn’t have happened if you wouldn’t have gone through the linear line process, where it was like, God took you through that because He had to. Because there were things in Nathaniel where you’d go, like, actually, pride can’t come here.

Nathaniel: Right.

Abby: Actually, insecurity can’t come here. Like, not feeling like you have no value or no skills, that, that, it won’t function for this next season.

Nathaniel: It wouldn’t have, and I, you know, I think, I had free will, I could have just left or did something or been rebellious or whatever, I guess. But if I would have went somewhere else, it’d been 2.0, 3.0, dealing with the same stuff. And sometimes you see that with people, like, “Oh, this work is bad,” and you’re feeling sorry for them. Then they go to the same thing, same thing, same thing. And you go, “Hmm, time to look in the mirror.” If you were to have an honest conversation and they’re really your friend, to have that conversation. I just trust- when you look at the Bible, it’s full of those stories. Like, they had to go through the wilderness. And what I realized was, I had to go there. So this person, this person, this person.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: God knows them. God’s doing different things. He’s so incredible. But for me, for me, now it’s not personal with them. I look at- the whole thing was God-ordained.

Abby: It’s not personal to people who hurt you.

Nathaniel: Right. Like, I don’t have no ill will, because I had to go through that. And now, you know, I look at scriptures like Romans 5:3-5: “Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who’s been given to us.” I realized in that process of going through hard things. And the principle is, if you’re starting a new business, relationship, whatever it happens to be, the principle is, when you go through those hard things and you do endure, like, you build upon different things and you grow in your resilience and what you learn in that process helps you for whatever comes. Because life’s unpredictable. We cannot predict anything ahead of us. But what we have is, well, what I have is Christ. And when I’m humble and let Him work in me, and then you have this total, like a little kid, like “I trust you,” you jump. You, like, I remember my boys, like, “Jump, I’ll catch you.” You know? And they jump, like, in your arms. Like that’s how I feel, like, okay, the season that was really hard, or the season where it was my, because I thought, okay, I moved to Spooner, I thought, I’m doing this job forever. Like, I found it. Like, this job is awesome. I never thought it was going to change. I really thought, I got to the point where, like, this is awesome. Like, I’m on my game. I’m confident. But, and God’s doing some cool things.

Like, one of the coolest things about learning confidence in my skillset was actually through a side job. Brad, who is one of your customers, Brad Jepson, who got through an experience, a hard, hard experience, forged our friendship, because I really didn’t know him. But through a hard experience, he became a three-in-the-morning friend. And I had inside these side jobs, and he’s like, “Hey, I’ll hire you, and I’ll, and I’ll pay it, X, Y, and Z.” And I’m like, “Oh, wow, I don’t have to drive 45 minutes,” he’s offering whenever I can work, I’m doing lawn care, and there was a day where he had me do a job of snow removal. He goes, “I don’t want the job, I’m too busy, I want you to go up there, and you tell him it’s 25 bucks an hour”, something like that, or 20 bucks an hour, and I’m like, my value was, I’m a 10 an hour kind of guy. I mean, I’m, thinking, you know, who am I. And I’m like, I don’t even know if I told him this story. So I go up there, and I tell him, basically, I’m a 10 dollar an hour guy, or whatever, because I was too afraid to say I was this much ‘cause I was like that’s not my value. And the coolest thing was, they hand me the exact amount that would have been the 20 or 25 dollar an hour job. And, then watching him and his business, he knows who he is, he knows his product, what he can offer, and he’s so confident that he sells himself and he delivers. It’s not like a scam, like you see some people who talk big but they can’t deliver, and like the lightbulb went on. So we’ve been really good towards each other in different things. Like one day, maybe I shouldn’t share this but we’re driving along and he goes, “Oh, I’m so dumb, I’m so this…” his life experience. And I go, “Brad, if you say that one more time I’m not working with you anymore.” And he looked at me like, “What?” And I look at him like, “I’m serious.” A guy that can start a business, you’re working full, at the time he was working full time with county, he’s doing his other business, and the guy can work, like he’s so good, so incredibly gifted. I’m like, “You’re brilliant.” I’m, like, you say that one more time, I’m not working for you. And he knew it. Like, there’s some times when you know a friend is saying something, he just knew it. And so that’s what friendships do, though, they, a good friendship, or a mentorship, they really spur you on to be better.

Abby: It’s why you need to be in relationship.

Nathaniel: Absolutely. I feel sorry for people who don’t have that, ‘cause they, you know, I’ve seen people when they get to the end of their life and they pursued whatever… career, money… whatever it was, and they have nobody. I remember one time where we lived in that budget cut, we didn’t have TV and it’s the national championships for football, and I think it was Tim Tebow or something, and I got to watch this. And I’m like, I don’t even know anybody in the community that I could ask to go watch it. So I’m thinking, who would play this. So I go down to a bar, not to drink, I don’t drink, I don’t, you know, I go down there. It might have been smoking at that time. So I go down, and I don’t know, but I go in there and I’m like I don’t want to be at this place, I order a soda…

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: I’m watching the game, and I have this guy sitting next to me. And he must have had a few, and he’s an older gentleman, and I’m feeling sorry. But he says everything to me two times or three times. I mean, everything he tells me, he says it twice or three times. And I thought, but I’m like, how sad. This person gets to the end of his life, and he has nobody there for him. I don’t even remember the game. I came home, I smell like, and I’m like, I’m never, and I said, I’m never going, doing that again.

Abby: Well and ironically, you were in a spot in your life where you didn’t even have a friend you could call to say, “Can I go watch the game with you?”

Nathaniel: Right, it was so, like, it was, it just, you look back and go “Wow,” now, like, I’m fearless, you know, I come over, “Hey, Andrew, are you doing anything? Can I come watch the game?” Or, or, “Hey, are you going to watch the…” you know, whatever it is. And you know, or, people, family will do the same thing, like, Dad will just come over, “Hey, ah!” And just show up. And that’s, and that’s okay, I’m good with that. That’s great. So I look back now and I develop- ‘cause I didn’t have the capacity for, I have lots of friends, I would say I only have two friends that are three-in-the-morning kind of people and I’m okay, but I’m, I’m good with that because we all have a capacity. ‘‘Cause if you’re going to take time to cultivate those relationships, you don’t know what’s in a relationship until you go through something hard.

Abby: Well, and you, they, 3 AM friends have to be the ones who ae going to walk through life with you, and they’re going to do hard with you, and so it’s like you have to be willing to… put in the time and effort and energy to make that happen. And they’re going to be the friends where when life falls apart and you’re not doing well, I’m still going to show up for you. I’m still going to show up. And not everyone is willing to do that.

Nathaniel: In fact I think it’s really rare for that to happen. And I think it took a long time were I felt like I didn’t know how to be a friend to somebody. And praying about it, and you’re jealous of other people you se in relationships. I think it’s when I gave up on, again, surrendered to all that, because some of that is jealous. There’s a lot that goes on that could be jealously or whatever. And I decided, well I think it was just a time where God began to help me develop. And in that time, here, my friend from other there just said, “I’m,” here’s what really hit me hard. Like, he said, “I’m not giving up on this. We’re friends.” Uh, sorry. You know, that means something to me. Um, and that spoke life. Like, I’m doing good here, but a person says, you know, I valued every minute. And it wasn’t always good or whatever, but we grew in this relationship. And now, like, when we go places, it’s awesome.

Abby: I think that friendships that are that iron sharpening iron and they’re in the mud with you, they let you show up at the table at whatever spot you’re at, those 3 AM friends, as you’re calling them, I think they’re necessary for life. And I think cultivating them takes a lot of work. But it’s wen you started to do that, it’s when you started to face fear. It’s when you started to put yourself in the room around other people and link arms with people that you actually started to drag yourself out of that. And what’s interesting about it, too, is, and I just keep thinking this as we’ve been talking and you’ve been saying “3 AM Friend”, you’ve been talking bout that with people, which I think is true. You need those people in your life. You need to find those relationships. You need to put in that work. But ultimately, what God was teaching you during that season is that He was a 3 AM friend.

Nathaniel: Well, absolutely. He was always, my confidence in the Lord now, and I’m not saying I won’t go through other hard things. I know me.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: If it doesn’t happen just naturally, I’ll probably make it happen, right? I mean, just, I know me. Very passionate about things. It’ll just happen. I don’t try to. But He is there. When I look back, you know, he brought, I mean, he brought the children in Israel out of the wilderness. Now, they were doing all kinds of crazy stuff. You look over and over. We’re, right now, I’m preaching in Esther. And you look, and, and it’s like, they’re not coincidences. Through all, all that time, like, this happened and you’re like, and it’s magnified, so you get to see that everything had happened for a reason, otherwise potentially all, all the Jewish people in that whole are annihilated. Um, when I look at all the seasons in my life, I mean, from how I was raised, the things that have happened now, there are moments and things that have happened, either I chose that were sinful or broken and I reap the consequence and I had to over go through those things, and the only, what I began to find out was, I’m no different than anybody else. I’m like everybody else. And I just, like, “Oh, well, everybody struggles with X, Y, or Z,” and “Every does….” I’m just normal! It was such freedom in that right context, in the right pace, I don’t need to hide anything anymore. I’m not afraid of that. I know who I am now. I know I’m a Child of God. I know who, He’s there for me. Sometimes I have to go back. You get a little cocky or a a little confident or overconfident or a little bit lazy with the relationship, cultivating with God, with my relationship with Him. That takes a constant. And then things go sideways. And you go, you go back and go, “Oh, man. I messed up.” I need to go back to the, this is the truth. With friendships, I think part of the thing is, friends are not afraid to tell me how they see life. It’s okay to agree to disagree. They can point things out. They can call me out. I can call them out. We do that out of love. When you know somebody loves you, you can hear a hard thing from them. But you have to, you have to cultivate the relationship before you really know they love you.

Abby: Right, and you need to know it’s more than just flippant love.

Nathaniel: Yeah, there’s the popular, like, there’s popular friendships, like, “Ooh,” you know, like whatever.

Abby: “Oh my gosh I love them!”

Nathaniel: Yeah, that’s why I say the “3 AM” separates that because not everybody’s going to take a phone call at 3 AM. Not everybody’s going to get up, throw their clothes on, and go say, “Hey, let’s meet. What’s going on?” “I’m going through hell. I had this happen. I can’t sleep. I’m having nightmares. I’m having…” whatever. They don’t have to explain what, I’m just there. That’s important.

Abby: The other thing, too, about, like, the 3 AM friend is, I think you have to find somebody who looks at you and says, “Hey, tell me your dirt, I’m no better than you are.”

Nathaniel: Absolutely. Like, we, both of my friends have a relationship with Christ, so you already have that as a standard. Like, we already know who we are without God’s help and His, in His grace. And we’re not saying each one of us, you have competition, you have different things, but we know, we know who we are. But when you go through those hard things, that’s when you really get to know somebody.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: Um, so, like for those, and when I say, I’m not talking about staying up late with a 3 AM friend, just to clarify that so people hear that-

Abby: Everybody knows.

Nathaniel: Yeah, I’m talking about, when things go sideways, you call them in the middle of the night, and they’re there for you.

Abby: It’s the friend that’s like, “I will sit in the mud with you, and, and as dirty as you may be, I’m not walking away. And I’m not making fun of you for being covered in dirt.”

Nathaniel: And it’s a hard thing to do. And in that, though, you need to have in that friendship, it needs to be a friendship where it’s on equal setting. Because you can have where you’re that for somebody.

Abby: Which is great. And there’s a time and place for that.

Nathaniel: Absolutely. There’s mentoring. There’s uh, feeding in, there’s life where you’re ministering, you’re, you’re giving in, but it may not be that, um, your iron sharpen iron buddy where, because sometimes in that we just enable people. They feel rescued, they feel mothered, they feel fathered, but they won’t, they, if they don’t grow, there’s a certain point where you got to know, is this really, is this really good. Um, and I don’t, I’m all about feeding into people now that I’m a minister. I mean, that’s a whole ‘nother chapter, but I’m good with that. I love that I love people. I love them because God loves the amount of love that He did. I mean, let’s, I’m all out, let’s, let’s do it. Now it doesn’t always get reciprocated. That’s an interesting place to be, sometimes…

Abby: …but you’re talking specifically about, like, the friend you’re linking arms with who’s saying, “We’re actually just going to do life together.”

Nathaniel: Yeah, like they know when and how far they go, like I said, that takes years of cultivating. And I like that, how you say that cultivating relationships, I know that’s a big emphasis over your events, um, at the coffee shop, and everybody cultivates differently, but you need… like, road trips. They’re awesome. You’re gonna find out if you really have a friend or not because after you get out of Wisconsin and maybe Minnesota or Illinois, wherever, maybe going through Chicago, you’re going to find out if you really like that person or not. You know? You’re going to find out if it’s mutual. Like, you share things the same, like expenses, like, things you don’t think about. So, like, in that cultivating, there’s so much. I love it because now when you get to a, I don’t need to explain everything now, it’s so weird, it’s like, you just know. I know my friends, like, right? I don’t need to, there’s times when you walk through hard things and, and now I know, like, that’s my, now I would go to the ends of the earth for that person because of the journeys that we’ve been on. It’s so, it’s just so cool.

Abby: One of the things I just love about this is, God brought you through, like you said, it was like hell on Earth for you.

Nathaniel: It was.

Abby: He brought you through this thing, and at the time, I don’t know what you’re doing, and it was like the ultimate 3 AM friend who’s like, “I know you don’t get this, but I’m going after stuff in Nathaniel.” And it’s so necessary. It’s beautiful grace, even though it doesn’t feel like it, because you need this stuff gone so that I can give you a life of abundance. And now you’re living in the life of abundance. Now, that doesn’t mean it’s not hard or there’s not like hard things.

Nathaniel: Right.

Abby: But it’s like Nathaniel. Chains gone, set free. And like you’ve said, fear’s gone. Like, you don’t battle that thing anymore.

Nathaniel: No, I, there’s a lot of things are gone that I know are God. And I know they could come back, because, you know, fear, yeah, um, stiffness, you know, just, you know, stubbornness, whatever. I know they can come back, so I don’t, I’m not saying like, “Oh, wow, I’m all that and a bag of chips.” No, I recognize who I am and where I came from and I value the things that I wouldn’t have normally valued and I’m grateful. Um, and, when going through those seasons, like, I just went through a hard season, but the thing that, honestly, I’m like, when I come in and I looked at Christy and she’s like, you know, “This is God. This is what God’s called us.” And I was like, that’s right. I mean, if that’s all I had and that’s, it’s sometimes you go, “Oh, this is what I have.” But then, you know, sometimes you need to open your eyes and go, “No, there’s other people in this story that are with you,” you know? Sometimes you bite a little it of the, you know, woe is me or whatever, but you realize, “No, there’s, no, there’s more there if you open your eyes and look,” and, but God is there, there’s some people tat God brought you here, it’s not coincidence you’re with X, Y, and Z, these people, it wasn’t a coincidence. Wasn’t a happenstance. Now, we can make mistakes and wreck things and that’s why I think it’s so important with the Biblical standard, is, we need to go back and ask for forgiveness, work those things out. And it doesn’t say if you want to, if you feel like it. No. The Lord’s prayer says, “Father, forgive me my trespasses as I forgive those of their trespasses.” And then it goes on further to say, if I do not forgive them, He won’t forgive me. Um, when you walk His standards that are counterintuitive to our culture, they work. Now, they’re hard.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: I mean, I cry. I’ve been in a hard times where I couldn’t see, but I’m in a place where, like, I trust God ultimately. And I think we need that because our culture may go in a place where me being a believer or whatever is not tolerated, is not accepted. And m I willing to go to, just like I was on missions, like I was willing to be locked up. I was in some crazy places. So I’m okay with that. As long as I keep it in between the lines and I’m doing what- being obedient.

Abby: But I think, you read the Romans verse earlier, and it talked about endurance and it builds up and then it says ultimately it leads to hope. And so you just went through a difficult season. You said that. But you walked through it differently. And it’s not that you didn’t question, “God, is this where I’m supposed to be?” but all of the sudden, because you had been through things that built your endurance, it produces hope. And so you start to snap out of things faster, and you start to go, “God, you just trained me through stuff.” So you start to look at circumstances that are really hard where you’re looking around and you’re like, “Well, I don’t see how You’re working this for good, but I’ve got some hope because You’ve taught me some stuff.” And like to kind of circle back around of how we even started this whole conversation, that was the same point I had found myself at this season with Redemption, honestly, and what we were talking about ta the bar is, I was like, “God’s brought me through some stuff, so I’ve got some hope because He’s taught me, but this has been hard and I’m not sure if this is the right spot and I’m not sure if this is where He’s called me or not and I’m wrestling with some of that.” And it was just people around me coming alongside of me and saying, like, “Abby, this is exactly where God’s placed you, so maybe it feels really hard right now, but remember what He’s taught you.”

Nathaniel: Absolutely. And even as an entrepreneur but even personally, like you’re talking about, like, the things that you learn most is trial and error through the hard things. But when we look at the things, like you just said, the scripture I said, these are, it says character and the things that come with good character, they produce, and like you said, your resilience, you, you, you snap out of it and when you just feel like you can’t, you know, “No, I have a couple people in my life,” and sometimes we’re in a battle, a spiritual battle, and you just need, we just have to be willing to humble ourselves and say, “Hey, I need prayer. I’m kind of going through something. Sometimes I go through something. I don’t even know why. I don’t know if I had bad pizza,” which, I don’t know how you can even have bad pizza, but maybe you eat things or whatever, but sometimes when I just feel like it’s overwhelming, I just say, “Can you pray?” When you know somebody’s really going to pray for you, and also it gives you confidence, like, “Okay, yep, we’re going to be okay.” So I agree one hundred percent. And that those things do, and the endurance, that means you can go, God gives you those things so that you can be more than you ever were before as He builds you up as a child of God. We’re always, we’re going to be growing until God takes me home. I don’t ever want to stop growing. Now, I like the mountaintop experience, but I’ve learned to love the challenges and learn, if I’ve learned something, then, okay, it’s a win. I can make mistakes, learn from them, and it’s a win. If it’s, if it go through hard things and you don’t learn anything, good grief. Then it’s like, “Whoa, that’s bad.” So no, that’s good. I’m just thankful. I know that whatever God has in front of me, I, I no longer think, “Oh, this is job for us…” “God? I’m going to do what you want. For however long…” I like to think this is for the rest of my life, and I hope to do it until I’m 80 years old, preaching sermons, I mean, loving on people, great. But whatever it is, I know I can be who God’s called me to be, passionate. I don’t need to be apologetic about the things that God created me to be. I am who I am, and sometimes I’m dorky, and sometimes it’s awkward, and sometimes all those things. But at the end of the day, if I’m loving well, serving well, giving my all I’ve got, and I need God to keep filling that tank, because in myself, I won’t have enough. I’m good with that. Now, I’m not saying God won’t give in another season of life, we have different things that happen, that God won’t do some other things, I’m good with it.

Abby: Yeah. I just love it. I’m, I’m learning those things in like, my life, and our conversation which sparked this whole episode at the bar was about all of this stuff and it was just so encouraging to me at that moment, where I was like, “Oh, that’s what I needed to hear. Oh, I needed to hear the…” I needed to hear the reminder that, like, “God’s taught you some things, and so,” just, like, “don’t lose hope here. And so speak to the mountain,” like, “speak to the giant, and don’t forget that,” like, “it’s going to be okay. It’s been okay before.” And so it was like exactly what I needed to hear. I think this episode and like what we talked about, I think it’s really going to bless some people, so then we all go through experiences like that. I knew it was a message I needed to hear. It’s a message I need to be reminded of. So, I’m your niece and I didn’t know most of what we just talked about, so thanks for opening up and sharing!

Nathaniel: Oh, that’s amazing. I hope, because, I mean, I just, God’s so good.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: And anything, I don’t want to take credit for anything that I’ve said. I know where it came from. I mean, I’ve been very blessed, and how the family, my mom and dad, how we were raised… I’m thankful that our God’s a redeemer, that He redeemed me from some of the things that weren’t so cool, fear and not confident and, it’s funny, faithful and confident in some things, but mostly not. And God is, He redeemed that. I mean, I love, that’s why, “Redemption”, I love your name of that. But He’s continually redeemed that which was broken or not perfect until He brings us home, perfect.

Abby: Yeah, it’s a, you’re fully redeemed and you are being redeemed.

Nathaniel: Yeah, it’s awesome.

Abby: And I love it. And like, the thing you’re talking about is what this is all about. But it’s the idea of like, how do we have conversations over cups of coffee about growing, about that journey, because we’re all on it, we’re at different stages of it.

Nathaniel: Absolutely.

Abby: But we’re all on it. And we all have the opportunity every time, you said this, you said, ‘If I wanted, I had free will, so if I didn’t make the choice, then it would have been 2.0 and 3.0.”

Nathaniel: Would have been.

Abby: You would have just kept repeating the same patterns and you could have done that for the rest of your days here.

Nathaniel: Could have been. I was flawed. It was me.

Abby: But all of us are, nd so all of us have the choice and circumstances to look at it and say, “I’m going to let this hard thing make me, and I’m just going to keep repeating the same patterns forever.” Or I’m going to look it in the eye and I’m going to say, “You know what? I’m going to learn from it. I’m going to grow from it. And I’m going to learn how to be better.” And that’s the opportunity offered to everybody and offered forever until the day you’re called home.

Nathaniel: Amen.

Abby: And so that’s what this is all bout, and I just thought it was super good and really encouraging. So thank you for being here.

Nathaniel: Well, thank you. I’m so surprised that you didn’t know this so it was fun, and again, I just want to give God all the credit, and just, I’m extremely blessed and thankful, you know, for family, and my wife, and just the Lord and the things that He’s doing. It’s, it is a wild adventure, and it isn’t always going to be a fun, it doesn’t always going to be easy because that’s life. That is life. But I know where my final destination is, and that’s where it’s perfect.

Abby: I just realized that we ask questions at the end of every episode and I forgot!

Nathaniel: Oh boy!

Abby: I forgot this. I forgot on my own episode, like my own show. We ask two questions at the end of every episode, so first question is, “If you could go back and tell your younger self one thing, what would it be?” and then two is, “What do you want to be remembered for?”

Nathaniel: Well, I’d go back and say, “Have no fear.” Um, I feel like I missed lot of opportunities that I could have took. Have no fear.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: Um, trust God. That would be one I would tell myself. I would have a lot, I have a lot of stories, but it would have been a lot more. “What do I want to be remembered of?” I want to be remembered as somebody who loves people passionately, but because I love Lord Jesus Christ with all my heart, soul, and mind. I hope people remember that, that man, that person, as crazy as he is, he loves the Lord and tries his best to serve Him. That is the most important thing. And then I just love well and love people well with all, just the characters that I am. And that’s, that’s what I want to be remembered. That I love the Lord with all my heart. So.

Abby: I love it. I can’t believe I almost forgot to ask those because those were good answers.

Nathaniel: Well, thank you Abby, I’m just really proud of you and all the things that you’ve done: podcast, Redemption, you are incredibly gifted, it’s blown me away. I love seeing my nieces and nephews come into their own with their creativity and art and videography and pictures and your art is within your space of the coffee, coffee shop, and just extremely proud of you. Yeah, it’s just really cool to see how family is flourishing and all their unique experiences. It’s just really, really cool. And I love your coffee, of course.

Abby: Well thank you, I appreciate it. That means a lot. It’s been kind of like you said, God’s beautiful grace.

Nathaniel: Yeah.

Abby: And through things you’re going, “Man, I never would have pictured this, I’ll do it for as many days as you want me to, and the day you want me to pivot, I’m pivoting.” So, that’s been good and cool and this, this is all just a testament to Him, so.

Nathaniel: Well I just see the amazing things that have come out of it, if you look back and you just started and you’re not that old, um, and that’s amazing. So as you build your endurance in your journey, I just, I would hope that you look back and see how many connections, like you talk about connections, cultivating over the coffee, the relationships. But there have been so many people touch channels. I love it, wen I was at the coffee shop, people come out of their way once a year just to come to the coffee shop. It’s more than just coffee. The coffee is awesome. Your creativity within that space is incredible, amazing, and I’m not just saying that because you’re my niece- it’s an amazing gift. But when you see people come out of their way and just see the connections and what that’s rooted in to me, that’s amazing, whether it’s with women, young women in your direction there, or just seeing people come and have a conversation and being sober and having a conversation or having a laugh or whatever. To me, you look back and see you’re a part of that, um, and there’s been some incredible stories that I know that you have and have shared and some, many that you haven’t shared. That is priceless, because that’s eternal.

Abby: Yeah.

Nathaniel: And there’s going to be eternal consequences for that because of that time and space. It’s amazing. That’s seeds that are just multiplying and that’s awesome.

Abby: Thanks, yeah, it’s been the reminder I needed this season because it can get really hard when you feel like you’re plowing up fields and you’re plowing up fields and you’re like, “God, I don’t see the fruit of this.” You know? “I don’t see things sprouting.” And it was just the reminder this season. And again, it came through kind of like even just our conversation at the bar and actually a conversation with Aunt Christy, too, just speaking truth, and going, like, “A:,” like, “you’re doing kingdom things, remember that. B, that can be enough.” Like, you can just go, “Actually, God, that’s enough. That’s the only reason I’m here anyways.” So there’s a reminder I needed. So even just your testimony today and talking and sharing, just another, like, I feel encouraged to go to work tomorrow.

Nathaniel: Woo!

Abby: So thank you!

Nathaniel: Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me, Abby. I really appreciate it.

Abby: Yeah, it was an honor. It was a joy and an honor. I learned more about my uncle.

Nathaniel: Oh my goodness.

Abby: Well, thank you guys for being here, it was such a fun episode today, hopefully it blessed you and we will see you guys next time.

Abigail Melton

3 AM Friends with Nathaniel Melton

About Nathaniel

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