From Fear to Flourishing: A Friendship Story with Maryn Melton
“It wasn’t a question of, “Do I care about you?” It was, “What does practically walking out this love look like for us?””
In this episode, Abby will be having a conversation about fighting for friendships with her friend, sister-in-law, and Redemption's CCO Maryn Melton. The two will not only be diving into the nitty-gritty details of their personal relationship, but will also be sharing what they've learned through their shared experience about...
- learning how to communicate with conflicting personalities
- relating deeply with people in different life stages
- rebuilding relationships after past trauma and hurts
“Our friendship story actually looks nothing like a Barbie movie. It’s nothing about how phenomenal we are. It’s actually kind of how much we suck and how we realized, ‘Wow, we’re stuck together, so we’d better make the best of this.’”
About Maryn
Maryn Melton is the CCO at Redemption, Abby's friend and sister-in-law, and a wife and mom. She loves sipping cortados and mocktails, spending time with her family and in-laws, and singing along to her favorite songs.
Read the Podcast
Intro: Welcome to Beyond the Bar, the podcast where coffee and conversation are a catalyst for growth. If you’ve been searching for that coffee-with-a-friend experience that leaves you feeling seen, met, and encouraged, you’ve come to the right place. So grab your cup, listen up, and together we’re going Beyond the Bar.
Abby: Hey friends, welcome to Beyond the Bar, I’m your host Abby. Here at Redemption we are pretty big on relationships. We talk about it a lot. We actually have an event coming up in like couple of days- when this episode releases it will be a couple of days that we have an event coming up called “Flourish” all about how we cultivate flourishing relationships in our lives. All that to say, we are well aware that relationships can be very difficult. A lot of you probably know pieces of my own story where I’ve had some interesting and hard relationships. So we thought it would be worth talking about and getting into. So today’s episode is going to be a slightly different format. It’s going to be an unfiltered conversation, not really an interview, diving into a specific relationship in my life history that has been kind of difficult and hard, but we’ve worked on and seen a lot of redemption from. So I’m excited for today. Like I said, it’s a little bit different, but I think it’ll be valuable and hopefully encouraging. So I’m gonna intro today’s guest to the conversation: she’s a familiar face around Redemption- we love her- she’s also a familiar typist behind the computer, you’ve read a lot of her copy and her words because she functions as a CCO here at Redemption. So it’s my friend-turned-sister-in-law, bestie forever, Maryn Melton.
Maryn: Hello hello.
Abby: Thanks for coming on!
Maryn: Yeah, I’m excited.
Abby: This is, like I said, different sort of thing ‘cause we’re just gonna get into it and chat. So different than some of our podcasts, and you do all the behind-the-scenes stuff with me but this is the first time you’re in front of the lights.
Maryn: Yeah, I’m much better in the written communication realm so I’m a little bit nervous, but we’ll do the best we can. It’ll be authentic at least.
Abby: It’ll be authentic. It’s actually not the first time you’ve been behind the lights because we tried it once-
Maryn: -that’s why I’m so nervous (both laugh), because we re-recorded like seven times and decided to scrap it.
Abby: Uh-huh. Yeah, so actually this isn’t our first time trying this.
Maryn: No, but I do feel like a little bit more practiced now, a little more podcast-literate, so…
Abby: So here we go. Hopefully this doesn’t suck.
Maryn: Yes.
Abby: Beware. Well I think the best spot to start is the beginning, wherever that is…
Maryn: Yeah. Like I guess I think of the beginning as like, I don’t even know how old we are. What are you, four years old- four years older than me?
Abby: I’m 25 right now.
Maryn: I’m 21. So yes. Math.
Abby: Math.
Maryn: Um, yeah. So I don’t even know how old we were when we like, met, but our families got close and we were like friends for a long time.
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: But it was probably more in that like, childhood, close-families, sort of… Obviously not the same kind of conversations that we have now.
Abby: I don’t remember when- I mean I have a horrible memory- but I don’t remember when I would have like been introduced to your family. ‘Cause-
Maryn: We were young.
Abby: -yeah, ‘cause whenever we like came back to Spooner and then sort of went to Cornerstone gain, like I just remember you guys being…
Maryn: …just like spontaneously there.
Abby: Yeah, and again, like I have a horrible memory, so not exactly sure, but I remember like drawing dresses in your basement with you and stuff.
Maryn: I remember that too!
Abby: Yeah!
Maryn: They were so bad.
Abby: Hey, you know, which is funny because like neither of us wanted to be fashion designers, but we liked to draw wedding dresses. Yeah, and sketch them out.
Maryn: I always like, one thing I remember from that stage is always very much thinking that you were like… cool. So I guess that actually hasn’t changed either.
Abby: (Both laugh) Aw, that’s so sweet.
Maryn: No but seriously, I’d be like, “Oh, the cool older friend gets to come over, we get to draw wedding dresses together like we’re older and we’re not. But she is, so that’s cool.”
Abby: Hilarious.
Maryn: Yeah, that was a lot of our- that was a lot of our relationship from my side, actually.
Abby: Yeah, like I don’t have a ton of, you were just like there, poof, in the story, and then I don’t remember you like not being in the story. Our families were close. We hung out all the time, did stuff, we obviously went to the same church, so we were involved in things. When we started having a more interpersonal relationship I’m not even sure- we emailed!
Maryn: Yeah, we emailed. Sometimes I’ll like go I’m gonna try to delete emails and then I’ll see emails from you.
Abby: That’s so funny! Because now you email for me.
Maryn: Yeah. (Both laugh)
Abby: The irony…
Maryn: I emailed so many friends and like- it’s so dorky looking back at like, I’ll literally go to delete emails from my inbox and I’ll find emails to like some of my friends and be like, whoa, that’s bad.
Abby: That’s hilarious. So we used to email briefly.
Maryn: Yeah, that happened, before like texting. I remember like, you got your driver’s license and then like you started taking girls on girls trips to like, you’d be like, “We’re going to Eau Claire, it’s gonna be fun” and I’d be like 14 and I’d be like, “Well, can I go?” So that’s kind of like a vague chapter…
Abby: Okay, there we go.
Maryn: But I felt like that was, again, more of like the fun group setting and I feel like I kind of knew that I was like… I still didn’t feel like we had the strongest interpersonal relationship at that point. It was more just like, “This is what the fun girls do.”
Abby: Yeah, I remember like, probably more in high school or like my early years of high school, we were just such different stages. So we weren’t like “not friends”, we were just much less of like, interpersonal friends. It was more like group situationally in church and stuff, we would interact but didn’t have as much of like an interpersonal relationship. But that all changed when you started dating my brother.
Maryn: Yeah, that’s when the story- like it we want to talk about when the story started…
Abby: When the story started.
Maryn: That was all just like, background information.
Abby: Because everyone wanted to know that we drew wedding dresses in your basement.
Maryn: Very important. Yeah, so then started dating Chase and that’s the drama and that’s the drama and that’s actually just where like, something that had been probably fairly easy, like, became not easy anymore.
Abby: Yeah. And part of what actually ironically makes this story hard is that I used to joke that you should date my brother, and you were like, “No.”
Maryn: Yep.
Abby: Like, nope.
Maryn: Yep, sorry Chase.
Abby: Yeah, you were like, “Nope, I’m not interested, like he’s not a boy a have a crush on.”
Maryn: Yeah, you kind of were like the leader of that train, um, and then like more people hopped on it and I got more and more adamant that I was not going to hop on it, and I did, and it kind of fell apart.
Abby: Yeah, which again, like the irony of it is I was probably like the biggest pioneer for like, “Oh, you should do this” and you were an adamant no, then when you and Chase did start like talking and it was like a thing and started- and I don’t even remember how all that happened but then when you guys actually did start to date, that’s kind of when our relationship went sideways and I was actually pretty against you guys together. Not in- not in like theory, ‘cause obviously I had championed it, but yeah, this is where in practice it was rocky.
Maryn: See, and this is still something that- in relationships, I would say that we’re super open and we’ve had a bajillion conversations about this, and yet it still can be weird to talk about.
Abby: Yeah, and I think part of what’s hard about talking about it is it’s embarrassing to look back at your past self. Or like maybe that’s just me.
Maryn: No I do that too.
Abby: I’m like so embarrassed for that Abby that was before. Like the Abby that we’re talking about in this story. Like it’s, it’s actually really embarrassing to publicly share this story because, like, she was just a jerk and like that is embarrassing to share with the world.
Maryn: Well, I feel like this Maryn was a stubborn child, so also not the most flattering-
Abby: “The Jerk and the Stubborn Child”
Maryn: Yeah, not the most flattering angle for me either, but hopefully it’s helpful to talk about it.
Abby: Yeah, which was the whole point of why we wanted to do this, was to get kind of awkward, and…
Maryn: It’s possible, it can happen, you can do it.
Abby: Yeah, and we, yeah. That was the whole point, is like, let’s get into some of our awkward messy because people might not know this, and our relationship is not at all what it was even two years ago, nd that just shows the importance of investing in relationships- why the work matters. Why you should fight for them. Which we’ll get into, yeah, but um, I think we probably need to elaborate-
Maryn: Elaborate, which is going to be hard because your memory sucks and mine isn’t great either (laughs) but-
Abby: Shoulda had Chase here.
Maryn: Yeah, he, well, I don’t know how much he would remember either…
Abby: I don’t know but his memory is fantastic.
Maryn: Yeah, his memory is, but he just- yeah, anyway. I won’t say that. (Both laugh) So from my side, like, we got together, there was like this… it was at State Wrestling, and there was this moment of like, “Yay!” Like I remember you texting my mom and being like, “Chase told Maryn he likes her” and like it’s this thing, and like you guys were like fangirling and then I feel like I felt this collective withdrawal of support, if that makes sense. Or like approval.
Abby: I think that actually like if I really think back, and again, my memory does suck, but I think there was initial hype around you guys liking each other, being together… I think where it really started to change dynamically is, it was the first time in like any of our circles that, you know, you guys were young and it was the first time that any of our parents’ friend groups and stuff were going through the circumstance where their kids were dating, and then not only were their kids dating, but their kids were dating each other. And so I think even from a higher level than us, relationally, the adults in the situation were also…
Maryn: …doing it for the first time, it was very much on a stage, I do feel like that.
Abby: Yeah-
Maryn: And it was in this weird, like, I knew that there were different stages and like I wasn’t seeing all of the things, but it was very, like, it was very discussed. It was very like, there were a lot of opinions.
Abby: Yeah, there was a lot of opinions, and I was a very opinionated person. Not that I’m not now, but hopefully I’ve grown a little bit. But like, really, the girl in the story that we’re referring to, she was so opinionated, thought she knew what was best, was a fierce defender of people, and, but probably didn’t do it in a way that was… there was a lot of times I don’t think I did that in a way that actually came across in love at all. And so what I thought was being loving actually came across really harsh and judgmental and like condescending, and I think I did that with you. You started dating and you were what, 16?
Maryn: Mm-hmm
Abby: And, I very quickly jumped on to any sort of immaturity or imperfections that I thought I saw, and in an attempt to protect my brother- which is what I would have called it that whole time- I just like, pretty much stiff armed you and was like, “I don’t like this. You have this wrong and this wrong and this wrong, and I see this and I’m not sure about this and I hear this…” and yada yada, and “Your friends are saying this and therefore” like “I have a problem with you.” Which again, like, embarrassing. Like so embarrassing to say.
Maryn: (Laughs) No and I think that I like, I felt that, and I did not respond to it, um, in any sort of grace or maturity, um, I was super super intimated by you, I felt that, and instead of like confronting it or having any conversations or trying to make real change, I think I got pretty stubborn and then progressively like, I don’t even know if bitterness is the right word. I like, or stubbornness… there’s got to be a better word for that. But I got pretty like, defensive-
Abby: Defiant?
Maryn: Defiant. That’s, yep, words. I am the CCO. (Both laugh) No, I got very defiant in the face of that. But in this very quiet way, where like, I was having all of these feelings in private and then I would show up and like, all of that would read would be like insecurity, which then like, fed into like, a lot of concerns, but I think that I just- even behind that, have this very like, defiant, like, “Well what do you expect, this is what you made me” kind of vibe and that just was not… it wasn’t going to fix any problems.
Abby: No, and like obviously we- again, we’ve talked about this a lot privately. Like this isn’t the first time we’re discussing or unpacking this or apologizing for things, but we both recognized immaturity in ourselves. For both of us it just came out in very different ways.
Maryn: Oh yeah, and those ways did not communicate. They were, they were very… and I think that’s one of the amazing things about our friendship, is that inherently we should not probably be able to communicate efficiently with each other.
Abby: Yeah, and to unpack that a little bit for other people- like we are opposites in a lot of ways.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: Like where I would be bold and direct and…
Maryn: …over-confrontational or like, “jumping on it”; I would be slow-processing, insecure, like reading, not bringing stuff up. You could face- we’ve talked, you’ve said this is a frustration- you could boldface ask me if something was a problem and, I’m getting better at it, but there was a time not that long ago where I would have always said, like, “Nope, no problem. We don’t have a problem.”
Abby: Which for me was super hard. And this is what came out at that like point in the relationship was, I’m the kind of person who like directly is gonna ask about something and I’m going to take your answer at like, face value. And I’ve gotten better at this too, where like I am better at reading people’s emotions and subtlety and things that people are non-verbally saying, and that helps in the conversation. You’re actually really good at those things. And so you are really good at picking up on people’s emotions and things that they’re not saying. And people who don’t have that skill as much or they need to grow it, which at the time I needed to grow it a lot- if someone didn’t tell me, I wouldn’t know. And so I wouldn’t know. And this was just probably like a lack of self- lack of self-awareness too, but I didn’t realize when I was offending somebody or I was hurting somebody or I was steamrolling them, because I just assumed like, if I ask you a question and you tell me the answer, I took that at face value, which in some ways, like not necessarily wrong, because I asked you and then you would have just like not told me the truth, but in other ways, my personality at that time especially was so aggressive and so forward…
Maryn: It scared me so much honestly. Like you like, just genuinely highly intimidated me which like, looking back- you can look back at relationships and be like, “Wow”, like, “if I would have just been like more confident and more upfront with you, like, that would have fixed so many problems” because the things you were frustrated about were like responses that I was having- like letting myself have, if that makes sense to…
Abby: Responses to…
Maryn: Yeah, like confrontation, or you bringing stuff up.
Abby: Well I think part of the problem too was, I’m the type of person who wants to deal with the thing, and you were the kind of person who would just passively never deal with the thing, which put us at odds in that tension a lot because I would want to wrestle the thing out and figure out what the problem was and solve it and you would be- you were much more contented to just say, like, “Nope, it’s fine, and we’ll like never talk about it ever.”
Maryn: I’ll sit in the minor discomfort of not talking about it rather than push through like the highly uncomfortable talking about it so that it can get better.
Abby: Mm-hmm, so that like, uber-passivity and uber-aggressiveness were like as conflicting personality waves as they possibly could have been, which just created this like crazy cycle in our relationship which led to some massive implosion, really, when you think about it.
Maryn: Yep, yep. So what would be like- I feel like there was, there’s these vague years where that was just like, happening. What would be like the next landmark of that? ‘Cause by the time we got married, we were doing better.
Abby: Yeah-
Maryn: And I, well, you’ve said before, is it when we got engaged and you were like, “Okay, this is a thing?”
Abby: No, well…
Maryn: Was that before that?
Abby: I don’t remember exactly what this was, but I have a vivid memory of being in my parents’ kitchen.
Maryn: Oh, yeah.
Abby: And Chase, so your husband, my brother, was making his peanut butter toast, I think. And again, I don’t have a very good memory, but this one is sealed into my brain, as I’m pretty positive he was making peanut butter toast or a peanut butter bagel or something in the kitchen, and I remember him turning to me and looking at me and saying, “Do you hate me?” And I looked at him and I went, “No.” And he like, had tears welled up in his eyes, and like my brothers are not really criers-
Maryn: No, Chase doesn’t cry (laughs)
Abby: Yeah, and he had like tears welled up in his eyes. Like, “Do you hate me?” and I was like “No, I, no, of course I don’t.” An he goes, “Then like why can’t you be for Maryn.” And I was crushed. Like I was so crushed. Because the whole time that I had done anything or said anything or treated you any certain way, it was in the name of protecting my brother. That was like the banner I waved over and it was my excuse for anything, was “I’m doing this in the name of protecting my brother, so it’s okay.” And then that moment in the kitchen where I’m face-to-face with him and he’s asking like if I hate him because I couldn’t champion you and couldn’t be for you, and it was the most soul-piercing, crushing moment where I had to apologize and go, “I am so sorry. How blind and how prideful.” Like I had to come full-face with my own pride and my own sin in so many different ways and facets to go, the very thing that I said I was doing all of this in the name of is killing my brother. And that was such a conviction to me. Like my people are my most important things to me, aside from my relationship with the Lord, like my people and those relationships are the most valuable, sacred things to me and the idea that I was unintentionally hurting him by not being for you was like, “I have to change something.” It was such a like, a mirror held up in my face of like, “You have to do this differently.” So at least, I don’t know when that was in a timeline, but that’s definitely a vivid memory seared into my head of the moment where I looked at him and I went, “Abigail, you have to figure out how to change a bunch of things because your brother loves this girl, which means you have to figure out how to love her. And I didn’t, I didn’t not…
Maryn: (Laughs) I know.
Abby: I didn’t not love you.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: I just had all of these like, prideful hills I wanted to die on, of how I didn’t think you were…
Maryn: I remember there being a conversation about like, I wasn’t gonna be supportive of like our kids being in sports, or something.
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: Like there was just all this stuff. Just stuff.
Abby: Yeah, it was just stuff, and it was like, nitpicky things, and again, it was things where it was like, looking back now, you’re going, “You made so many mountains out of anthills”, and a lot of it looking, again, like this is such an embarrassing episode (both laugh), showing all the sin, all the pride, all the flaws of Abby… Um, there were so many things where like- it just goes to show my own immaturity. And I had never been in a relationship. I had never dated anybody. And so like, there were so many things that I made a big deal. I didn’t know what it was like to be in a relationship or to be married. Not that that doesn’t mean you can’t comment necessarily or have like opinions and thoughts, but now looking back with the perspective I have now, it was like, it didn’t matter if you grew up playing sports or not, like that’s not a make-or-break thing in a relationship at 17 or however old I was, I- I try to make it seem… well…
Maryn: You were substantially more than, you were like 19 or 20 at the beginning, and then yeah.
Abby: So at like 19 or 20 then I made something such a big, like, such a bigger deal, when it’s like that- that’s not un-overcomeable, and I acted like it was such a huge problem.
Maryn: Well, to get into my embarrassing parts (both laugh)-
Abby: Yeah, come on Maryn!
Maryn: I think one of the ways that we’re so different is, like we’ve said before, you’re like zero or a hundred and I am a very comfy fifty (Abby laughs). Like you can’t sit in fifty for like any time at all. So, like, it took me a lot longer to get to 100, whereas, like, you had probably been on like, zero, and then, like, you hit that point and you were like, “I’m all in. I’m putting in the work. I’m working on myself. I’m showing support.” And obviously, that like, like there was growth within that, like, you started somewhere nd there had to be growth from there, but I think I was a lot more still in this like, also prideful but in a different, different way prideful… like this passive, like, “Well, I was never against you, I was just like, waiting,” kind of-
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: You know, like, “I’m just waiting for Abby to decide if we’re friends or not because I’m just here” and like I’m so much more comfortable in that space than you were, and it took me a lot, a lot longer to get to that point of like resolve that you’re talking about, where I was like, not only am I okay with this thing, not only do I like, vaguely want it to be okay, but I’m actually gonna put some like, actions behind my words, and I’m actually gonna work on myself. That, a lot of that change hasn’t happened ‘til fairly recently, like your character development- granted, you’re older than me- but like your character development was like way faster in that sense.
Abby: Yeah, and again, I think that’s like personality, to like, yeah, I, to my positive or negative, tend to be a zero-or-a-hundred person, so I’m like all in or I’m all out.
Maryn: Yep.
Abby: Which I’ve tried to even work on too and get better at middles, but definitely at that point it was like, “I was against Maryn and then I was for Maryn”, and it was like a flip switched, and it….
Maryn: Yeah, a flip switched.
Abby: Yep, yeah. And I was gonna be your biggest champion.
Maryn: Mm-hmm.
Abby: And so even looking back now on that, too, I could see how that would be confusing on your end and I was just like, “Oh, I’m for you and like I’m gonna champion you now” and like I see that would be confusing for somebody.
Maryn: I very much felt, which I had felt, okay, so like I’ve always kind of felt like I was in the passenger seat of our relationship and you were driving the car. And for a long time the car was going great and then I felt like you kind of like crashed the car and got out and I was still just sitting in the passenger seat like, “I don’t know, maybe she’ll come back, maybe not.” (Abby laughs) And then you came back and started driving it again and I was like, “Okay, I guess we’re fine?” But I was still not, like, participating that much in it. Like, I was just there. That’s actually kind of how I metaphorically… so at least you were doing something. I was just the passenger princess. A grumpy one.
Abby: I love that, the passenger princess. I think that that’s actually kind of a good analogy, though. Like I definitely would have the more dominant personality, and you’d have a lot more of the passive one.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: And so, not that that’s right or wrong, it’s just like how we’re wired as humans. So you tend to be a person who, like, follows the lead a lot more. Part of what- and you like alluded to this- but it’s only been the last couple of years where we’ve really taken massive intentional steps in our relationship. One of which has been geek-ily learning a lot about each other.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: In even like a personal, like, taking quizzes, and, and some of it’s been because of business too and overlap from that but we’ve gotten really intentional and strategic about learning how each person is wired and designed which is super helpful because it, it enables you to champion your friend in ways that they’re wired and crafted to flourish and not condemn them for areas where you would go, “That’s just not really how you’re wired, so I can extend extra grace for that and I can put you in situations and positions where you can thrive because I know how you’re crafted and what things help you thrive and what things don’t.” Um, it also is helpful to clarify a lot of those things, where like I don’t think you get offended if I’m leading something and I don’t have to all the time really feel like I’m crushing you if I am because we just like run in our strengths in that point.
Maryn: Yeah, absolutely. We’ve definitely made progress in that whole area because, yeah, for a long time it felt very, like, at odds with each other. We were like, making it work. Like we still were in the same car but there wasn’t a lot of communication.
Abby: No, and I think, like, again, to your car analogy, I think we were in the same car, but it had crashed. And like, I just got back.
Maryn: (Laughs) We were driving it again, but it was, like, smoking and sparking.
Abby: Yeah! And I think, and we were, like, damaged from the car accident.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: So, like, there was some spots that were probably bleeding or broken that needed to be addressed, and like, because I was zero to 100, I just jumped back in the car and started, like, “Well, we’re going to chug along.” And like you said, I think I started addressing some of my personal stuff and getting really introspective and trying to be super self-aware on what I could do differently and how I could grow and what we’re- how could I love you better and support you and Chase, because I think that did all kind of happen around when you guys were getting engaged and gonna be getting married, and so, starting to figure out, “Well, what does the supportive role look like here?”
Maryn: Yeah, like you were my mid of honor, like you did my bachelorette party. It was fun. Like, we were involved with stuff. We would talk sometimes.
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: But it definitely did feel like there were some, like, you were having frustrations because not a lot had actually changed; you were just putting all this work for it- I’m putting words into your mouth- um, but I feel like-
Abby: It’s okay, you do that. That’s your job. You put words into my mouth all the time.
Maryn: (Laughs) I do, I sign off “XOXO, Abby” on every email.
Abby: Yeah, I pay you to do that.
Maryn: Yeah, like it is Abby because I- this is what she would say.
Abby: Right.
Maryn: Um, but yeah, I feel like you were still having these frustrations nd you were just trying to work on them privately because I hadn’t actually changed phenomenally much as a person, and then I was like, “We got into this car accident, I guess we’re fine because Abby said so, but I’m still kind of bleeding because it actually really hurt.” Like the way that it all happened.
Abby: Yeah, and I was so, you were, you’re still, you were still passive. And so you were bleeding and you didn’t come to me and say, “I’m still bleeding, can we address these things so that it can stop?”
Maryn: We were fine because Abby said so.
Abby: And I was running in the “we’re fine” and doing my own personal work because I was so afraid of addressing anything with you to repeat the same pain I had done before, because a lot of the problem and impact was Abby addressing issues.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: And so I was so afraid of making the same mistakes that I didn’t want to move forward in that same pattern. And I didn’t know what, I didn’t know how to address an issue without fear of it causing a problem, and so I just decided to not address issues and to just try to champion you the best I knew how and work on Abby stuff.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: But you were, you were passive, and so there was probably a couple year period where we were in relationship and it was better, there was just still a lack of depth, I would say.
Maryn: A lot of lack of depth.
Abby: And there was a lot of unspoken- and I was getting better about picking up on the unspoken- there was a lot of unspoken bleeding sore spots that just didn’t get addressed because you were too afraid to tell me that you weren’t okay, and I was too afraid to hurt you again in addressing stuff, even though I felt like there was problems.
Maryn: And not only was there like a lack of depth, but there was also like, it was like a bound- like we were living in this happy fenced-in garden- we’re making new analogies, this is really frustrating, it was a car crash and now it’s a garden (Abby laughs)- but we’re living in this little fenced-in garden and it’s like, but if we step out of any of like these safe things, then like, there, like there were boundaries there, right, there was like, off-limits…
Abby: Yeah, there were, there were spoken off-limits things where we just didn’t touch that.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: So…
Maryn: It was like, okay, well we have to be okay because we’re sisters now, and this is how we’re okay. By not touching those things.
Abby: Yes.
Maryn: And we’re not like great, but we’re good, and that’s good. Like yeah, we’re good.
Abby: And I don’t know about you- for me, that was an uncomfortable stage to live in because I hate not addressing things. Is anyone shocked? Anyone shocked?
Maryn: No.
Abby: I hate not addressing the thing, but I was- there was so much fear- this was like the era of fear in my life, a lot, and so there was so much fear of losing relationship and repeating my same mistakes that I- I just didn’t know, I didn’t know how to solve it. I didn’t know how to fix it. I didn’t know how to do it better than I had done before. I didn’t want to ruin my relationship that I had, the version of it I had with you, because we had come a long ways, and I didn’t want to hurt Chase again. And, you know, I just didn’t want to blow the thing up. And so it was an uncomfortable season for me because it still wasn’t what I would, what I envisioned the relationship possibly being, it wasn’t as fruitful as I thought it could be, which was sad to me. It felt like it was emptier than it had to be.
Maryn: Yeah. And like, I am typically a lot more comfortable at that like passive 50% zone than you are, and I’m also not as much of a visionary as you are, so I like, I would have never guessed that we’d be where we are today. Whereas you probably were like, “This could be this awesome sisterhood thing,” and I was like, “I don’t know.” But I heavily relate on the fear thing because I still think that our relationship carried a lot of like fear and anxiety for me too in that sense of like, we have to keep all of this like corralled because like if something like, lets loose, like, the whole thing’s going to fall apart. So like there was this anxiety of like, “Well, how do I act? How do I talk? How do I function in the family? How do I do this? That’s not going to, like trip up something and set it on fire.”
Abby: Yeah, and I think one of the things that we both probably mutually had, although you say you’re not as much of a visionary, but I think you wanted to feel comfortable in your life, because-
Maryn: Yes.
Abby: -and so, you had married Chase, and this was going to be your family, and you guys weren’t planning on not coming back to Spooner and doing your lives here. You were planning on going to Cornerstone. So like, from the very beginning, we both were looking at each other going, “We know we’re going to be in each other’s lives for forever.”
Maryn: Yeah, and we love each other. And like, I love the Melton family. I like, I knew that all the whole time.
Abby: Right.
Maryn: That was never, like, on the table in question.
Abby: Yeah, it wasn’t a love in, it wasn’t a question of like, “Do I care about you?”
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: It was, “What does practically walking out this love look like for us?” And it still didn’t look very great.
Maryn: No, it didn’t.
Abby: So it was fine.
Maryn: It was like a relationship with like a middle schooler and their parent where you’d look at each other and you’d be like, would you die for each other? Yes. Do you also end up yelling at each other every single time you sit down for dinner? Like that was kind of like the…
Abby: Yeah, where you would look at the evidence of said love and you would go like, “I’m not seeing a lot of practical evidence of that.”
Maryn: Yeah, yeah.
Abby: So do you theoretically love that person? Maybe. Is the fruit of that showing? No. No. Is that a problem? Yeah. Yeah. Like I would argue that’s a relationship problem. And you probably have some thinking you need to do about why you claim to love something and your actions don’t show the fruit of that.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: Which we eventually got to the point of that. And it actually came through, at least in my end, unless you have a different memory of this, but for me, this actually just came after Owen was born.
Maryn: Yeah, I would say that like, we were on like an, like an up-and-downs-but-mostly-up trajectory for that period of time. Like you were having life things that you were going through, like at times I felt like I showed up well, most of the time I feel like I did not show up to your stuff well, so like, that was always, that was a thing we had to get through. And then yeah, we, we got pregnant, you were excited to be an auntie the whole time, like… I remember telling you- you were not having a very good day- and I was like, I need to tell her that you’re going to be an aunt.
Abby: That moment was a couple weeks after I’d gotten kicked out of the house.
Maryn: It was actually the first time we hung out-
Abby: -after my marriage was like, ending.
Maryn: Yep. And we were going to spend the entire together, and I decided that I had absolutely no choice, which is super unlike me to actually decide that and then follow through with it, but to tell you on the car ride to Eau Claire when we were going to spend all day together.
Abby: Which actually I think is kind of a moment to talk about because it was, it had to have been a massively intimidating situation for you. Because relationally, there was a lot of potential for blowback.
Maryn: I was terrified. It was one of those things where like, I don’t feel it very often, but I’ve felt it a handful of times where you get that feeling of like, “I have to do this and I have to do it right now.” And I was like, “I have to tell Abby, even though, like, we haven’t been in a phenomenal spot. She’s not in a phenomenal spot.” Like, I have to tell her this because like, beyond the fact that, like, you were going to be an aunt and whatever, and, like, that’s, like, you know, big deal, but like, not that big of a deal, but beyond that, we were friends, so it’s just like, I had to be open with you about where I was at.
Abby: Yeah, and part of the reason why it was hard is because you knew it was going to be emotionally charged for me.
Maryn: Yeah yeah, I knew that it was going to be like a…
Abby: Because I had been married and that had been in the stage of wanting to build a family and then that was all taken.
Maryn: Yep.
Abby: And so it was just, just the beginning weeks, like it was maybe two weeks or three, it was very soon after.
Maryn: It was very soon after. And I had been telling you the whole time, like, “I’m married, but we’re not, like, I’m not, like super on the mom train.” (MVI_7699 12:07)
Abby: No.
Maryn: You were on the mom train.
Abby: I was on the mom train, and you were not.
Maryn: Yeah. So then to turn around and be like, “I’m going to be a mom,” was like terrifying-
Abby: Right, because you-
Maryn:, -and I knew I had to rip the Band-Aid off.
Abby: Right. And actually, I remember this conversation, which is again interesting because that was a very blurry stage of- season of life for me, but I remember that conversation because I remember you telling me and I remember being, one, really proud of you for telling me because I knew how hard of, how like, I knew how much you had to overcome your own personalities and things you struggle with to face that and to tell me, so I was proud of you for doing that; secondly, I remember looking at you, and maybe it was just because I was in such a broken state, but I remember looking at you and going like, you’re not pumped about this. I can tell. Like I know this is hard for you. So like, I’m happy for you and Chase, babies are great, being an aunt will be awesome, and like if you nd to talk about why this is hard for you I can, I can do that. And like I don’t remember, I didn’t say it quite like that I don’t think, but I just remember looking at you and knowing like, you’re not screaming, like you’re not screaming of excitement. This isn’t blanketly for you emotionally just happy. Like, you were processing other emotions than that.
Maryn: Yeah. And I remember not even imagining under any circumstances that conversation would have gone that way and gone that well, so I remember kind of like a drop- jaw-drop kind of feeling, like I literally remember texting my mom and being like, “It went well!”, or I think my mom knew at that point, I’m not sure, I guess, I texted somebody and said, “Telling Abby went well.” and I remember being like, whoa.
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: Like that was kind of a moment for us, which is funny because we haven’t talked about that in a really long time.
Abby: No, but I think one of the things, now that we have some language around it, one of the things that was impactful about that conversation is, it was one of our first conversations in I don’t even know how many years probably, or maybe ever in our relationship, where it was the first time, and we wouldn’t have described it at this time because we didn’t use this language, but it was the first time where it was like, "You’re… you’re just welcome at my table.”
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: “In whatever version of emotions and brokenness or struggle or joy that looks like, you’re just welcome here.”
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: And it was the first time that you and I extended that gift to each other and offered up like a sacred space for each other that we had never, we had never done that before.
Maryn: Mm-hmm, Yeah, because I was looking at you going, “you don’t have to be thrilled for me”, and you were looking at me going, “you don’t have to pretend that you’re okay just because of where I was at.”
Abby: Mm-hmm.
Maryn: Yeah. No, that was really good.
Abby: Yeah and so I think moving from that point we actually were probably a little bit closer while you were pregnant because I was one of the people that didn’t need you to be completely just happy.
Maryn: Yeah. And I was like, wow, this is, this is great.
Abby: Yeah. So I remember through that, I was walking through a divorce and you were walking through pregnancy, which was not something you had expected or anticipated in that timing of life, and we had really cultivated- or were starting to cultivate, we didn’t even probably realize it- but this unspoken idea that we were welcome with each other and we didn’t have to pretend anything created the beginnings and openings of a vulnerability and a groundwork for trust and safety that we had never cultivated before, which was really impactful for, I think, both of us.
Maryn: Yeah. So then the next part is where it goes downhill again, which is where I actually, which maybe you would say this happened, like, leading up to me having Owen. But I had Owen, and I kind of felt like my life kind of collapsed a little bit. Like, felt super claustrophobic in motherhood- loved him to death, like he’s my favorite tiny human, like, cannot overstate like what a blessing he was to my life- and at the same time, the months… like I would probably say like the four months after he was born, I like, was not doing well at all. And you took a lot of the brunt of that, actually. Like you were showing up and I was like checked out.
Abby: Yeah. And I remember trying to show up in capacities that I knew how to…
Maryn: Mm-hmm.
Abby: …and trying not to get discouraged that it was like talking to a wall. Or any sort of level of emotional vulnerability we had gotten to prior to that felt like it was gone and it was just like, it was like talking to bricks, um, and it was, it was super disheartening for me. This was after some relationship loss, then, um, in some dramatic, traumatic ways for me, and so it was bringing up some of that. I was massively trying to not respond in all of my relationships based off of past trauma. So I was really trying to not just shut down myself. So I remember multiple times talking with my parents and just being in tears of like, “I don’t know how to do this better, I’m trying to be grace-filled, I’m trying to be understanding, her life is completely changing, she’s a new mom…” you know, “She’s processing. She doesn’t have to pick me to process with. I don’t have to be her best friend, but I don’t know how to do this any better.” I was just such at a loss. And, you know, I had driven down to Eau Claire, I had done some bigger things I felt like and tried to get creative and how to reach out and extend love to you, and it just felt like nothing picked up steam, like nothing landed, which had been discouraging. And so I remember, like I said, just being in tears with my parents going, “I’m trying the best I know how to love her, and it just doesn’t feel like it’s working.”
Maryn: Yeah. Yeah. Yep, and then on my side, I felt like I was in a cloud, and like was super grateful whenever you showed up, and I like… didn’t have, I didn’t have what it took up to show up beyond that. So like, I was very much was okay with being in like my mopey trauma era where I was like, this is hard, and like- and a lot of it was super hard, like, um, your life changes when you have a, when you have a happy, like it just does. Your friendships have to look different, especially in like the first few months. Um, but I was not aware of how that was affecting you at all, and it actually took you like face-value saying that to me.
Abby: Yeah, which happened only because you asked me a question about a different situation, and it was super mirroring to our situation, and so this was one of the first times where I had to face addressing an issue, which was facing some fear for me of going, “I- I feel like I have to say this because” again, “she’s my sister-in-law and I want our relationship to be like, awesome.”
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: “I want it to be as awesome as it can be, and I’m going to regret if I just never told her this because I was afraid that it was going to make her hate me.”
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: And so it was the first time I kind of addressed it, and I don’t even remember exactly what I said. I just remember sort of calling you out a little bit. But then I remember also trying to say, like, “This doesn’t have to look any differently if you don’t want it to. Like, I can be contented with this. Just know that on my end, I’d also love for it to be more. And if you want it to be more, then I’m here for what that looks like and we can figure out what that would look like together.”
Maryn: Yeah. And that was like, it was a huge, it was a processing thing. Like I can’t promise that I didn’t go home after that and rant to Chase about it. (Both laugh) Like I can’t say that I didn’t do that.
Abby: Well, I don’t think you said anything to me in the car, barely.
Maryn: Well, I’m a slow-processer, you’re a quick processer, another dynamic, um, but I very much remember that being a moment where like, I had to personally wrestle with it myself, um, and get to a point where like, I had to resolve. Like, so you had hit that resolve moment a long time ago, and I had to, like, put both feet into the situation and like, set my resolve to, like, I- If I want this to be, like, flourishing, if I want this to be great, like, I can’t just sit here. Like, I can’t just sit here and let Abby drive anymore. Like that’s actually, you’re right; it doesn’t work, wow! Like, I’ve been letting you do all the work this whole time, um, and not only did that start a change really I think in our relationship, but it also was one of the first times that I had to really get super introspective on like, “What does it look like for me to try to be a good friend?” And like how do I, what are things that Maryn just is gonna need to change to be, like, an active participant in relationships with people.
Abby: Mm-hmm.
Maryn: And like I had done that before with family, I had done that with Chase, I’d done some of it, but with friendships, I, I don’t think I actually hit that point until we had that conversation. So, yeah, big change, and then I’m trying to think of some things that like actually changed then from that, I don’t know, do you remember? Because it’s still like, foggy.
Abby: Well, I think it was awkward, a little bit. It was again, one of those different… I think every time you hit a new layer of growth in something it’s a little awkward and there’s like that clunky figuring-it-out and one of the things we started to do is finally talk about the awkward clunky growing, which we hadn’t necessarily done before. We’d have like a moment of a conversation and then we' both would back away and like do things, but we’d never communicate about how that was going and like check in. And we started talking, both of us, finally, at that point after that conversation, after Owen had been four or five months old, we started both being active participants in the relationship and talking about it and checking in with each other regularly of like, “How is this going? Can I do something better?” and like I think we just started checking in with each other, too.
Maryn: Yeah, and like part of my personal growth, I had been this very like, this, um, like quiet, mopey, like, if I felt like something wasn’t fair, I was like “'Man, that really wasn’t fair, I actually didn’t feel like that was all my fault, but whatever.” Um, and I would like, take that and make it very personal, and one of the things that I had to realize was like, me being… like, it actually took more maturity out of Maryn to confront stuff when she didn’t feel like it was… like when I felt like there were issues, for a long time I thought that maturity looked like dealing with my feelings about things by myself and not making them issues, when in reality, they were like, causing more problems. So then I had to get to a point that you had actually been for a while, or you’d more naturally be in that state of, which is like, “If this is going to be really good, nothing can be off the table anymore.” Like, nothing can be allowed to never be a conversation. Um, and that doesn’t mean that we have to like, go through everything, and like, you know, debrief the old files from everything happened when we were dating and stuff, but like I even just recently, a couple months ago, had a conversation with you where we were talking about stuff that happened when I was 16 and you were 20 or whatever, and I was like, “Yeah, that actually really hurt me,” you know, and like, that felt like maturity then. It was growth.
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: Where I would have… there would have been a time in my life where I would have said that that was like, problematic.
Abby: And I think part of what is, like, what you’re saying is, it’s not that you can’t even just process privately and deal with it yourself. Because I think sometimes that is the mature call.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: It’s that, if you are realizing that it’s still actually an issue for you and you’re saying it’s not but it is, and so then it comes up in other ways, that’s when it’s a problem.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: Because there are times that, where something happens and you’re like, “Oh, that irritates me,” but it’s okay for you to just privately deal with that and never-
Maryn: And I was claiming that high road for every single problem that I ever had.
Abby: Right, when in fact, you actually were holding on to things and holding them against people and as long as you cannot hold it against people and you could say “No, like, I genuinely” like, “I don’t even remember it” like “I processed it and I moved on from it.” Then, that’s a version of maturity, or like an option in the toolbox. What’s not is just, like you said, claiming that, but then actually just holding on to all these deep-seated things that are like, “Well this and this and this and this” and they just become your evidence against that person that you’ve never let them see the case file for.
Maryn: No, super. That happened where we started talking about everything. I got a lot more confident, I think, in our… and part of that was that you were creating an environment that made me feel safe to do that, I think. Because before I think that I was obviously, you know, intimidated, afraid of, like, things falling apart or whatever. Like, we had reached this level of security where I felt like, “If I say this thing, even if Abby doesn’t agree and even if it’s uncomfortable or even if it’s hurtful or even if we have to re-hash it out, we’re not going to fall apart anymore.”
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: This doesn’t have to like, start on fire. Or maybe it starts on fire a little bit but we stomp it out.
Abby: I think that the environment of safety, like you’re saying, is what’s super important. If you don’t have that, it’s not that there’s not hope that something can’t be redeemed, because I still believe that is true, but the ability for it to happen faster and for it to be a healthier process happens when you create that sacred space for each other and you say like, “I’m going to show up enough to this where you can confront me with something or we can deal with something that’s hard or awkward or uncomfortable and we’re going to wrestle through that hard together,” and knowing that somebody’s going to stick around and do hard with you is part of the reason you’re comfortable to bring it up in the first place. When you feel afraid that the moment something hard happens that person’s going to walk way or they’re going to use it against you, it creates a very toxic environment where you just avoid anything that’s hard and you don’t deal with anything beyond the surface which I would argue a lot of the relationships in the world look like that.
Maryn: Yep. Yeah, for sure. And then like fast-forwarding a few months later, like, we got, we started working together. Like, I started working on Redemption stuff, we really, like, hit the “learning about each other” thing hard because we were like, “We want this to go well. We want this to be great.” Like, we both just like that nerdy stuff already. So like, it functioned really well. But then we had a few different moments, and like one in particular where like, we kind of had to do the reverse thing, where like I had to be like, “Abby, you’re safe though.” Like, “I’m not gonna,” like, “none of these problems are making me want to leave.”
Abby: Which for me was super hard because obviously one of the things I struggle with is fear of people leaving…
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: …from my own past experiences. And I remember that conversation. I, we had been working together for a couple of months and I desperately wanted working together to go well because you’re my, we’re so, we have so many cross-roles and hats. You’re my, one of my best friends and my sister-in-law and now you were coming on my team. So there’s this boss/employer/team member thing going on, and so there’s just all these cross roles and I was feelings so much pressure for it to go well, and it felt like it was my job and I was so afraid of unintentionally crushing you or unintentionally doing something and like, our old patterns from the past resurfacing in a way that would break the relationship, that, yeah, I remember, I was like not doing well. Like, the pressure and gain fear coming up and being so afraid of repeating the past in our relationship was keeping me from enjoying the relationship or feeling safe in it.
Maryn: Yeah, because you felt like you were the responsible one. Like you were the driver of the car and if the car crashed, it was going to be your fault, and you know.
Abby: Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Maryn: And I, having not been a very vocal person still and tending to be a more passive person had like, a repeat moment where- I think it was a big moment for both of us- where I had to kind of like re-amp up my resolve and be like, “Okay, not only can we,” like, “Not only do we need to be like active in this car, but like, I also need to drive sometimes” and like “I need to let Abby know that like, even if she gets too tired, we’re still moving somewhere. We’re still, we’re still in this.” And I hadn’t realized until that moment that I wasn’t doing that for you at all.
Abby: Mm-hmm, yeah and I think creating that sacred space for people and relationships where you let people land- there’s not a lot of places in the world in general, in just like the culture and times, even in social media and different things, like political… like, there’s just so many things that are so heightened. And everyone’s living in this very anxious, high tension, high alertness of like, waiting for the shoe to drop, waiting for news blast, waiting for the unfollow, you know, waiting to be canceled. Like, there’s so much of like, waiting for bad and for people to leave or for things to go poorly that people will remove themselves from relationships or experiences before that even happens, or you never, you never participate in relationships because you say you believe in them but they’re massively shallow. And they don’t withstand, really, the test of time, in any significant way. You’re not actually doing hard or doing life together.
Maryn: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Abby: And creating that environment in your relationships where you say, like, “It’s okay for you to be broken with me. It’s okay for us to not have perfection in our relationship. It’s okay for you to show up in your human capacity and I’m not going to chastise you for your humanity. I’m going to champion you and I’m going to love you and I’m going to embrace you even if I don’t have all of the answers,” and we started to do that for each other and that was transformative.
Maryn: Yeah, it’s been like a marriage of sister-business-women-
Abby: Yes.
Maryn: No but it so has been, in the sense that like, ever since that conversation in, what was it, January we started working together, so it’s only been…
Abby: It was before that because you were there, you were there in November.
Maryn: Okay, I was there in November.
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: But it’s only been this year, it’s only been in the last six months or so or whatever where it’s felt like that. It’s felt like something that used to take work and intentionality and stuff is more effortlessly intentional in the sense of like, it’s filling for us now.
Abby: Oh, yeah.
Maryn: Like, we’re reaping the harvest, in a sense, of like, the work that we put in.
Abby: For years.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: We’ve worked on this for years.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: And yeah, it’s been in the last probably six months where, instead of feeling drained by being around you, even when we’re both exhausted, we would be people where it’d be like, “No, I would hang out with you. I didn’t mean not you.”
Maryn: Yeah. (Laughs)
Abby: Which like we’ve done, where we’re like, “I hate the world, I hate people, I just want to be alone” and then you’re like, “Well I didn’t… but like, I didn’t, I mean, you. I could be alone with you.”
Maryn: Yeah, no, and in like the most like, organic, easy way possible, but not in any sense of being passive.
Abby: No.
Maryn: Like the reason it’s been easy is because there’s a depth of understanding and a depth of acceptance and a depth of like, “plop down at my table” that is like… it’s so good.
Abby: One of the things that I also love about our relationship, which I think is an excuse for a lot of people for not being in relationship with certain people, is they’ll say, “Well, we’re just not in the same stage of life.”
Maryn: I wanted to talk about this so bad so I’m glad you brought it up.
Abby: Because people use it as an excuse all the time to just write people off. Like they can’t be friends or be in relationship. We’re not in the same stage of life at all.
Maryn: Yeah, we’re like, “Well yeah, they’re my friend but like we’re just in different stages so we’re not close right now.”
Abby: Yeah.
Maryn: And like the amount of like, discovery… like it’s been like finding nuggets of gold. Or like the amount of joyous discovery when you realize that you can be in completely different situations than someone and yet you can be feeling the exact same things. And you can be entirely different personalities. Like we live different lives, we’re different people, and yet like, the amount of times that we’ve been like, “Oh, I actually have the same exact feeling” and like “I’m so glad that I get to relate to somebody on this.”
Abby: Yes. And from outside perspectives, we are entirely different personalities and we, like, we don’t have anything in common aside from like, shared people.
Maryn: No, like you’re, like, an actual kick-butt businesswoman out there, and I’m like, I’m like a stay-at-home mom. Like I’m pregnant with my second, you know.
Abby: Yea, we just are entirely different stages of life. Our personal, like, our relationship backgrounds are entirely different. Like, we just have a lot of things that are not in common.
Maryn: Even, like, on paper, the fact that you’re 25 and I’m 21 should, like, write us off as, like, being close.
Abby: Yeah. And so it’s one of the things that I love about our relationship now, is it’s such social proof to me that like, “Oh, screw that answer” when people say that and they write relationships off because they’re not in the same stage.
Maryn: Yeah, and it’s because it does take more work, but I also think it’s because people just genuinely don’t know that that’s a thing.
Abby: Yeah, and I also think, like you said, it takes more work because unless you let people show up to the table how they are, you’re going to have problems if people are in different seasons of life than you. Because you automatically have expectations on them. And I think that’s part of our relationship that’s transformed a lot of things. When you take expectations off of people and you just let them show up- and that doesn’t mean you don’t put in work or effort or that they’re…
Maryn: …or that you can never call them up or call them out or any of that.
Abby: No, but neither of us now have any sort of expectation of like, lists of needs, necessarily from each other, where it’s like, “You have to meet this, and if you don’t meet this then I’m super disappointed.”
Maryn: Yeah, yeah.
Abby: Even in like a hangout session. Like there’s an easy breezy casualness to whatever chaos we end up doing that is so breathable for life. Um, one example is like, I never expect you to not have your son.
Maryn: Yeah, oh yeah. And like that magically just was like, so freeing for me when I started to really feel like the depth of what that meant sink in. Like even if you were stressed, like, you just knew that like, I was going to show up with the baby or the toddler or whatever. And that was okay.
Abby: Yep.
Maryn: You would rather me show up like that than not at all.
Abby: Yes. And giving each other grace to do that; to show up in the capacity that that person has, the ability to be like, “Hey, that’s enough. I’m so glad you’re at my table.”
Maryn: Or like, you’ve apologized to me like four times that I’m having this little baby shower tomorrow and you’re like “I probably won’t be able to make it…” And I finally was like, “I don’t care.” And it’s not because I don’t love you, or like, it’s not because I don’t want you there. It’s because there’s just this like, I would never expect you to have to.
Abby: Which is interesting because that would be a common thing that girls would get upset about.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: Like, “Oh my gosh, and then my best friend didn’t even come to my shower because she was working.” No, I’m serious.
Maryn: No, no, it totally does, and that doesn’t happen- the fact that we’re there isn’t an accident, though.
Abby: Right. Which I think that’s the part that’s key.
Maryn: It’s because of, honestly, like, over-communication, but like in the best way.
Abby: Yeah. And I think, not to be like super brandy, but to go back to our core values at Redemption, which you were in the meeting and like you helped craft those and rustle those out when we came up with our core values, but like, “Fierce in how we love people: we show up to our relationships and we continually invest in them” -we do that.
Maryn: Yeah. So I’m not, I’m not feeling a need there for me.
Abby: Right.
Maryn: Like it’s full. It’s there.
Abby: Because you already know…
Maryn: You’ve showed up to me. You’ve invested. You were doing it.
Abby: Right. And even just some of our, like, again, like we could go through all of our core values… “Intentional in our actions: we consider the impact our actions have”, “Trustworthy in our integrity”, “Genuine in our approach”… like we could go through all four of those core values and we both live by those.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: So there’s an alignment in values and there’s, we live by these things, and that transforms relationships.
Maryn: Yeah. Yeah, and none of that is to be like, “Wow, our relationship is so great, like, we have the best friendship.” (Both laugh) On our spreadsheet, like, Abby had titled this, “Our Friendship Story”, and had like left it like that because she knew it was going to make me laugh because it was horrible.
Abby: Yep.
Maryn: Yeah but-
Abby: I knew like a Barbie movie would pop into your head-
Maryn: Yep, and I actually said, “Oh, like a Barbie movie?” (Laughs) And like, it sounds corny, and it’s ironic, but like, it’s, it’s not that though. That’s not what this is. That’s part of why it made me laugh, I think. It’s because of like, Our friendship story actually looks nothing like a Barbie movie. It’s nothing about how phenomenal we are. It’s actually kind of how much we suck and how much we realized, wow, we’re like stuck together, so we’d better make the best of this. And like, it worked. And like, you had faith. I don’t know if I always though that we were going to end up here, but like, I’m thrilled about it, and now it’s just such a thing where it’s like, “Wow, those relationships don’t have to suck.”
Abby: Yes.
Maryn: Even those ones that you’re not stuck with. Like, I hope so badly that if we weren’t sisters that still would have happened.
Abby: Me too, yeah.
Maryn: Yeah, and I don’t know if it would have.
Abby: I don’t know if it would have at the age and stage where we were at because there was a lot of- obviously we discussed like immaturity in things and clearly the alignment of that was like me realizing like, “Oh, crap, I have to like, love my brother well” so there, you know, so obviously God can do whatever He wants, but clearly in our story that paid to be true. But I do think that for both you and I now in our other relationships with people who aren’t our sisters, we’ve applied the same tactics. So I would argue that we’ve learned enough to go like, “Oh, no, this is just how we do relationships now.”
Maryn: Yeah, and it’s very radical, I think.
Abby: Not to say that it always works.
Maryn: No, no, because it took two of us participating. Like, you would have gotten burned out if I had never hit my 100 point. Like, if I had stayed at a 50% and you were running hard for this thing, it wouldn’t have worked.
Abby: No, and even that conversation, going back to the conversation in the car, we could have plateaued at the medium-ish, lukewarm relationship we were at if you would have decided that that’s what you were contented with. And I’m not saying the Lord couldn’t have done something down the line, but yeah, I think there has to be some level of mutual participation for you to get to that point, where you guys are seeing the restoration and the fruit of those efforts.
Maryn: So the point of our promoting like, active cultivation, active intentionality, the, like, the proof that flourishing relationships happen… it’s not to say that like, that’s what every relationship in your life has to look like either.
Abby: No.
Maryn: What it’s saying is that like, it’s possible, and it’s actually, like, life-changing if you take the time to invest in it and get there.
Abby: Yes. And I, at a core level, believe we were created for flourishing relationships. Like, I think that was our innate design as humanity was to be in relationship and I think they were designed to be flourishing. Now, there’s a lot of things that keep us from having flourishing relationships, which we’ve like gotten into a couple of those things, so, and my own story and life experiences have multiple broken relationships in them, where you would go, “I’ve tried some of these tactics and people still left.” I mean, it’s something I cry about all the time.
Maryn: Oh, yeah. Yep, and I had to be like, “But I’m not going to, I promise, I’m not going to leave.”
Abby: Yeah, so I think-
Maryn: But yeah, that’s not the result every time.
Abby: Yeah, so I think it’s not to say that what we’re saying is like, “Do this thing and here’s like steps one, two, and three, and then like, boom, flourishing relationship.”
Maryn: “And you should do this with all your friendships. Like all the time.”
Abby: Yeah, this isn’t like a, what is that called, like an infomercial?
Maryn: Yeah, yeah, for like flourishing friendships.
Abby: Yeah and then click the link and then like boom, in 30 days, here’s how you do it.
Maryn: All you do is take the Myers-Briggs test, watch Grey’s Anatomy, and send each other audio messages at 6 a.m. and listen to them while you’re putting your makeup on and then, man, like, your friendship’s just gonna, it’s gonna be great.
Abby: We would have a weird like, a list of how-to’s…
Maryn: Yeah, so you don’t actually want our how-to list. It’s gonna look different for everybody. But, like, find that and find that person that you’re willing to do hard for and that you can look at and be like, “I’m willing to bet you they’re going to do hard for me too” and like put in the work because it wasn’t an accident. We took the personality test. We watched the shows together. We cried together at 6 a.m. and it was great.
Abby: Yeah, and I think now we’ve gotten into this very exciting chapter that is flourishing and the fruit of that blesses us. It blesses other people around us. It’s… so that’s also been cool. Like, when you cultivate a flourishing relationship, that has impact on more than just the two of you.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: And so I’ve seen that with our relationship, like it’s blessed other people, and I, and I also think like, it’s challenged our friend group and just different relationships, it’s changed those dynamics, so you just start to see the ripple effect when you start to be that kind of a human. It just changes how you do human relationships.
Maryn: Yeah, when you have to do all that, you have to… flourishing relationships take a lot of introspective self-awareness and work on yourself. And so even just like learning about, like we joke about learning about each other, but like, I had to learn how I function as a human being.
Abby: Oh, yeah.
Maryn: And like, how I respond in situations. And what of that is appropriate in my nature and what of that is actually like flaw that needs to be like, worked on or paid attention to. And I didn’t get to live in this state of like, ignorant, “This is who I am” anymore, because like, that’s genuinely what it was, was me like shutting my eyes and then running into people and being like, “Oops, sorry.” Like you know what I mean? And then you reach that point where you’re like, “I don’t get to do that to people anymore.”
Abby: Yeah, and I think getting there where you see beyond yourself and you start to realize the impact that you have, even if you don’t think you’re having impact, like you existing as a human and being in relationship with people has impact and influence. How you do that matters. And so you can do it super sucky or you can do it with purpose and intention. And so that starts by introspectively looking at yourself, asking hard questions, working on personal growth, and not just slapping excuses on things to go, “Well, this is,” like you said, “This is who I am so therefore I get to do it.”
Maryn: Yeah, and again, not to say that either of us have arrived or like we’re phenomenal humans just because of our friendship…
Abby: By no means.
Maryn: But I do think that it’s like, it’s an active exercise, like it’s an active exercise in looking at yourself and saying, “Do I need to fix something?”
Abby: Yes.
Maryn: And I had like never done that before.
Abby: And I think the step beyond that is looking introspectively at yourself, which I think should be continuous life work. And very time you enter like a new stage, your new chapter, I think you kind of have to do that again. So like you’re entering a new chapter, and so with that will come changes, and so, you know, I can tell you’re kind of doing that again. Like, what is this going to look like to be a mom of two instead of mom of one? Business has changed dramatically for me. Different things are changing. So like, we’re kind of in that season again of like asking hard questions of ourselves, but the second part of that- which is what we did- is we started to get massively intentional about, “How is my friend crafted?”
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: And just caring! I think it’s really easy to not think about it or not care, and instead to start going to, like, I actually just really care how you think, or I care… how, how do you feel love the most? How do you receive love? What things matter to you? What things don’t matter to you? What things bother you? How do you like to be communicated to? What’s your preferences? And people just don’t go around asking that.
Maryn: No, because it takes intentionality and it takes work. And I think that it takes a lot of vulnerability and it takes a lot of vulnerability to look at yourself and ask those questions about yourself. But like, the, like seriously, the payoff of that work though… like it’s so much more life-giving than the shallow.
Abby: Mm-hmm. Yes. The other thing that I think this entire process does, or at least I think that this has been true for me at least: it makes you such a more grace-filled human. And when you have more grace for yourself and more grace for people around you, you start to just be less harsh and less hurt and disappointed by relationships and people around you. In general, and applying grace to situations, man, that’s just transformative.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: Like so transformative in life. I’m able to just not even be offended by things or upset at people because I’m automatically thinking and taking into account things that I know are going on in their life. And so it doesn’t even become an issue. Like I’ve done this in your life or in other people’s lives where you look around and you go, like, “Well, I actually know she has an appointment today,” and “I know that…” you know, “Chase is out of town,” and I know this and therefore like I’m going to already automatically lower any sort of, like, I’m just going to extend grace. Because I’m going to take into account her life circumstances and it automatically apply some grace. And that automatic application of grace goes a long way in relationships.
Maryn: Yeah, yep. And so if you’re having that frustrated relationship, like a great, like, couple of steps, would be like, “Pay attention, and be open-minded about what you’re going to see when you pay attention,” I think. Because, like it really just took us paying attention to each other and paying, like, we had to do some, like, intentional studying, but, like, in a broader sense and especially where we’ve landed now, like, just open your eyes, you know, and, like, watch someone. Like if you’re frustrated by their behavior, like, take a minute and then be okay with the fact that like, maybe you’ll actually learn something about the person and it doesn’t have to take asking them. Like, you might not be at a point with that person where you’re like, “Hey, do you want to take a personality test together?” Like most people probably aren’t there, um, yeah, but you can still, you can totally do some of that work yourself, I think.
Abby: Totally, totally. Well, I think this has been a super fun episode, hopefully other people think so.
Maryn: We thought it was going to be short.
Abby: Yeah, I literally was like, this will be like, 30 minutes tops, Maryn. Like, not a…
Maryn: And I was like great, I’m not a talker, I’m not a podcaster.
Abby: We chat like this all the time. So hopefully other humans enjoy this episode and find it helpful, because it’s just how we talk in life.
Maryn: It very much is. I think more people should talk like this though, it’s so much fun.
Abby: Me too, me too. My last little insert to this is that I think neither, you get to this point then where like, neither of us are expecting each other to be our finished versions. We’ve just linked arms and said, we’re going to do life together, and we’re going to grow together forever.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: So like, let’s go.
Maryn: Our friendship story.
Abby: Our friendship story. Magical Barbie music and fairies.
Maryn: Yep, totally. It’s always gonna… we’re never going to hit a road block again.
Abby: No.
Maryn: It’s just going to look like that forever, like a Barbie movie. I am enjoying our Barbie season, for however long. I hope it lasts forever.
Abby: I wouldn’t say it’s actually a Barbie season, like in reality, but, you know…
Maryn: It’s probably kind of ugly sometimes, but at least it’s like an ugly together.
Abby: No, it’s literally, this is like our inside joke, but it’s literally the Christina Yang and Meredith Grey. Like, watch Grey’s Anatomy. That’s us.
Maryn: Yeah.
Abby: And you guys can all vote, but I think I’m Christina and she’s Meredith.
Maryn: Mmmm. Probably.
Abby: Yeah, like, you have the whole McDreamy thing going on; I’m out there dating everybody and choosing work…
Maryn: Career woman. (Both laugh) No, it’s good.
Abby: It’s good.
Maryn: You’re probably right.
Abby: Yeah, well they can vote. You guys can vote. We’ll make that somewhere.
Maryn: Make it a thing.
Abby: Well, I think that’s it for this episode of Beyond the Bar. It was a little bit more like a “Behind the Bar”, which is what we joke about. Like the inside scoop. So, hopefully you guys enjoyed it, thank you for being here… hopefully you learned something. But we just very much at Redemption believe in flourishing relationships, so we believe in being in relationship with each other, so those are the things we stand for, what we’re trying to cultivate, what we’re trying to do, so we appreciate you being here. We will see you next time.
