Trustworthy in Our Integrity: Trust, Teammates, and Testimony with Andrew Melton
“The Lord was testing me and saying, ‘Are you hearing my voice?’ and “Are you going to be bold for me?’”
This episode is the second in a series inspired by Redemption's core values, focusing on what it looks like to be "Trustworthy in Our Integrity". Abby will be interviewing her father, Andrew Melton, who is a father, husband, pastor, and former teacher and coach.
He'll be sharing his life experiences on...
- standing firm when your life looks different than those around you
- developing boldness when you're a quiet personality
- how to encourage integrity in those you're in relationship with
“Good coaches will use sports to teach integrity, hard work, and dedication.”
About Andrew
Andrew Melton is a husband, father, grandpa, and the pastor of Cornerstone Church in Spooner, WI. Before pastoring, he was an athlete, teammate, teacher, and coach. In all of those roles he has been passionate about leaving a legacy of accountability, responsibility, and integrity.
Read the Podcast
Intro: Welcome to Beyond the Bar, the podcast where coffee and conversation are a catalyst for growth. If you’ve been searching for that coffee-with-a-friend experience that leaves you feeling seen, met, and encouraged, you’ve come to the right place. So grab your cup, listen up, and together we’re going Beyond the Bar.
Abby: Hey friends, welcome to Beyond the Bar. I’m your host Abby. Have you ever been on a team and just struggled working with other people or had a school project or co-worker? I’m excited for today’s episode. We’re going to be getting into our second core value, Redemption’s core value, so it’s “Trustworthy in Our Integrity: we rely upon one another to show personal accountability.” Today’s episode is kind of special for me, so this is going to be the second one that airs and goes out, but my guest is someone that I’ve known my entire life and who’s known me my entire life. So today I get to interview my dad. So, he’s a father, a husband, he’s been a coach and a teacher, now he’s a pastor. So I’m excited to dive into his kind of experience working with teams; being a team member.
So without further ado, here he is.
Andrew: Well thank you, Abby, for having me today and I appreciate it.
Abby: Yeah so we’re gonna dive right in, but in order to start, obviously, like, I know most of your background, but would you just start by sharing a little bit with everybody else kind of your background briefly?
Andrew: Sure. I grew up in Shell Lake, Wisconsin, which is a pretty small town. It’s just six miles from Spooner, where we're currently living and raised the children. And so, I did go to a Christian school until I was in the seventh grad and went to the public school And so went to Shell Lake, like I said, was an athlete there. I was grew up- which, people won’t think this is true, but I grew up really shy and quiet. And so I wouldn’t have liked to be in a speech class, I wouldn’t have wanted to be in those big group discussions or even working together ‘cause I was really shy and quiet. But the Lord changed that as I got older, specifically when I got to college. He gave me some boldness there and I started to come out of my shell a little bit, you could say.
So uh, yeah, went to college for teaching, felt like that was what the Lord wanted me to do. And so, so graduated from La Crosse and then got my first teaching job in Bruce, Wisconsin. I was there for four years and then I got a phone call from the retired wrestling coach and phy-ed teacher at Spooner and asked if I would apply for the job and I felt like the Lord told me “yes”, and so we did that and then I taught there for 11 years and now I think starting in July I’ll be going on my 10th year of pastoring at Cornerstone Church.
Abby: And just so people know, when did you, like you said you grew up in Shell Lake, you were super shy, but then what did, when did you start being involved in like athletics and teams?
Andrew: Well, back in elementary school, our family was big into wrestling, as most people know, and so started wrestling and traveling. I don’t know, I was probably on the mat when I was three, four years old, traveling, then participated in T-ball. So baseball was big, even though I was probably better at wrestling. Baseball was always my favorite sport, actually dreamed of being a professional baseball player as a kid, and even into high school I still had that dream, but then reality set in. So, and then football is a big sport as well, but didn’t do that until we got older, so…
Abby: So been involved in athletics since you were little, and then you actually wrestled for the University of Eau Claire- sorry wrestled for the University of La Crosse, you wrestled for the University of La Crosse. You did that collegiately then too.
Andrew: Correct, I was kind of burned out by time to get done with high school sports, and I wasn’t planning on doing it, but I went to school for physical education; La Crosse had one of the best universities in the country for that at the time, and when I got there just realizing at that time in the ‘90s it was super competitive to get a teaching job- things have changed today, where schools are having a hard time getting teachers- but some of the places when I first interviewed probably had 200 applicants for a lot of positions and stuff.
Abby: Wow…
Andrew: And so knowing that early on it was very competitive, I just knew the experience with wrestling and stuff would help with a coaching background and wanting to get a teaching job. So I decided to wrestle and I’m super glad I did.
Abby: So this is kind of random, but I was in the garage one day and I was organizing things trying to find stuff and I stumbled upon an article that was written about you in college and it was talking about how you were a different college athlete because you were actually married and had a baby….
Andrew: Correct, and that baby was you. So like I said, went to La Crosse for physical education, was taking 16-18 credits a semester, that was my goal to do that, but decided to wrestle as well, again, I’m glad I did that. So I was wrestling, had a job on campus in the grounds crew, and got married after freshman year of college, and then a couple of years later had you. So I was wrestling full -time, going to school full-time, being a dad full-time, being a husband full-time, and… a little bit different then the rest of my teammates. And so I think it was my senior year they wrote that article about that.
Abby: So could we dive into that stage of life a little bit? Obviously super different path, very non-traditional compared to a lot of college students then and specifically now- hard to find a person that age who’s doing that kind of walk; that’s a lot of things to be accountable for. So could you dive into how you did you do that?
Andrew: Um, I guess at that time I never thought about that and the responsibility in doing that. It was just, I think, it’s growing up in a solid Christian home. So I had those Godly principles of hard work and loving others and so my wife Kate and I would say we were both mature for our age at the time. Looking back you see our immaturity and we had to grow a lot but we were mature for our age and we knew that we wanted to walk in holiness and so we got married, and like I said, I just, even like studying and things, like they always asked me like, “Well, how can you do this? It seems so much more difficult” and I’m like, it’s not. I go home to a- home cooked meals, I’m not out partying and doing those things, so I had time to study. I probably had more time than the other guys in that sense because I was focused on what I wanted to do, and I loved it and I enjoyed it. And I could remember the next day, when some of them couldn’t. And so looking back, you can see like, yeah, it was a lot of responsibility, but it didn’t seem like it at the time.
Abby: Could you talk a little bit about your team culture then? So, ne of the things that they brought up in the article was that at the time your coach wasn’t even married. So you were the only married guy in that whole environment, and let alone being a father at the time. So could you just, what was the culture of your time like?
Andrew: We became a close-knit team. At that time, La Crosse was starting to really progress in their ability as a wrestling team. I really enjoyed the wrestling coach. Yes he was young. So we had some conversations about that. He actually is now coaching at UW- Eau Claire, and that’s why I think you said Eau Claire. ‘Cause I had both Chase, my oldest son, and second son, Carter wrestled for him. Chase graduated last year, and Carter will be student teaching next year.
And so yeah, I have some great memories there. But I guess you’d describe it as any college culture. A lot of the kids were there to wrestle and to party. And I’m not saying all of them were that way, some were focused on things, but it, but they had an example, I think, they treated me well. You know, I would participate in some activities and stuff as long as there wasn’t alcohol and things there, and so it was an atmosphere I think you’d describe in most college campuses.
Abby: How did you do that, and like at the time you said you actually didn’t have as bold of a personality as you do now, so I think people who know you now would think, “Oh, yeah, I can totally picture Andrew doing that because he just does, you know, he just boldly stands in his beliefs and that’s just what he does” which is who you are now, but you weren’t exactly quite as confident then, so could you just explain a little bit how you personally handled walking into that situation?
Andrew: Well like I said, I wasn’t planning on joining, uh, so I did join in, you know, you’re um, you maybe feel like you stick out a little bit because you’re different and have a child like that. But the guys treated me well. Um, it helps if you do well in athletics. And so that was the same for like high school and stuff. Um, our culture looks up to sports and stuff, so, I was successful in that so they respect you in that regard. And I don’t remember them like I said ever judging me for that, they just looked up to me and respected it. And I think most people today respect when people live with holiness and high standards. We sometimes can be intimidated or, you know, people couldn’t joke around with stuff, but most people, especially when you get them one-on-one, they appreciate it and respect that. And so, umm, we went through and made it through those seasons and did well.
And yeah, I was shy, and I said earlier where my boldness started to increase in college, it wasn’t actually until my senior year of college. I’d gone through five seasons, registered in my first year and then four seasons, qualified for nationals twice. And so again, to have some success you get some respect. But it wasn’t until our wrestling banquet my senior year where I felt like a tug from the Lord to say I really needed to share why I was able to do these things.
Abby: Well, because I’m your daughter, I know that even though a lot of people didn’t respond in that circumstance there, you have seen some fruit from that moment later.
Andrew: Yeah, well fruit was, most of the fruit I believe was for me personally. I think the Lord was testing me and saying, “Are you hearing my voice?” which I felt clearly that I did, and “Are you going to be bold for me?” especially as he’s launching me into teaching and that being my mission field. And so a lot of us, I sat down, my parents were there, and I do remember my dad saying, “Son, I’m so proud of you. I’m more proud of you doing that than any of your awards that you received tonight.” So that touched me a lot. I’m a person of words of affirmation, I appreciate.
So that started launching a boldness in me to hear God’s voice and be obedient to it. And so I think it was more for me than maybe for them to receive it at that time. But it was, oh, maybe 15 years later, somethin along those lines… I was the president of the Wisconsin Wrestling Coaches Association at the time. We’re at a wrestling banquet, it’s inducting coaches and wrestlers into the Hall of Fame, and so we’re at a dinner at maybe like 450 people, and there was- sitting at my table was one of my past teammates. He was, he and- we were just eating dinner and all of a sudden he’s like, “Hey, Andrew, do you remember that banquet your senior year?” And I’m like, “Yeah”, and he was like “Man, that was amazing what you said that night.” So it was like 15 years later I finally had one person make a comment about it and had said that it impacted his life. And so I don’t know what all that meant, but so it was neat to see that, yeah, maybe there was more fruit even for others than I thought.
Abby: Yeah, yeah. So you graduated college. The Lord was starting to stir something in you about being bold and stepping into that. So then you got your first teaching job. Could you talk about that, that transition from a college student to teaching and what that was like?
Andrew: Yes, but I want to back up a little bit ‘cause when people hear me speaking even today, they’ll be like, well, he says he’s shy, but I don’t really believe that. When I’m telling you like, when I was starting telling people like, yeah, I'm gonna, I would like to teach and coach, I remember overhearing someone say, “Oh man, I don’t know how he’s gonna do that. He doesn’t even talk.” And so I was shy, and didn’t say a lot, and so this really launched a boldness, like I said, after that to be like “Okay, I’m here in front of the Lord. I need to be bold with the Gospel.”
So I got hired late into the season and so that was a testing time as well. Again, like I said, it was very competitive at that time for teaching positions. So went all summer, still didn’t have a teaching job. It wasn’t until actually just a few weeks before school started and like, “Okay Lord, I know this is what you asked me to do…” And there was an opening in Bruce, Wisconsin, just a small school. And so I interviewed there, and by God’s grace, they actually offered me the job that day after interviewing and stuff. And I loved the principle there, Larry Villiard. He was a great principal, man of integrity, and it was, it was a great first hiring for me. And yeah, so it launched my- I became the head wrestling coach there, so I’m 22-23 years old and all of the sudden head wrestling coach. I had one elementary phy-ed class a day and then one middle school class and all the high school classes. And so now I’m same thing, a dad, you know, a father, which is the same as a dad [chuckles], husband, a wrestling coach, and a teacher, and so started launching that responsibility.
Abby: …and all at like, 22.
Andrew: 22, 23, something like that.
Abby: Okay, okay. What was that first couple of years then like at Bruce as a young teacher? Like you said, balancing all of these different responsibilities and just now starting to move past a little bit of that like fear and trepidation you had growing up?
Andrew: Yeah, it helps I think with being a teacher and going in with, I mean, you work with adults with the staff and stuff, but having that many students in those five classes… kids open up, they want to share, they wanna talk. And so that helped launch a boldness. Looking back, I can see that the Lord knew I was only gonna be there four years because things launched extremely fast for me. Had a lot happening a short amount of time. I’ve shared before with people, there was three student deaths, all car accidents, none alcohol related. So that launch, I mean it’s probably fall right away, went to, uh… this young boy that was on the football team had passed away in a car accident. And so the head coach myself went to the parents and, you know, again, you’re 23 years old and I had a chance to say, “Hey, could I pray for you?” They welcomed that, to be able to pray for them. And so that launched again some more boldness to share the love of Christ with people.
An interesting story, I don’t know who’s all watching this [laughs], but it’s almost back then, but within that short amount of time we were into wrestling season, so I don’t know if it was November-December timeframe… saw some kids talking and even telling boys were being silly and stuff. And back then the video cameras were a little bit different. So they had a videotape in their hand. I’m like, “What are you doing?” And they’re like “No, coach! No, coach.” And so then you knew something was up. So I just, I grabbed the videotape and I said, “Guys, we’ll talk about this later.” And so I put it down in my office and we had a wrestling match that night and all of a sudden some people start coming to the match that you wouldn’t expect to be there, and they’re kind of staring at me weird and stuff. So I’m trying to cope and get through the meet, and then, so, afterwards, the assistant coach and myself went and watched it and it, it was the craziest thing, because it was, again, kids just being stupid. But they videoed and basically welcomed every person into this party, this drinking party, and here again, I’m young, and there was star football players on there, star wrestlers on there, basketball players, plus just some non athletes and things like that. But it’s like, now I’m in a dilemma being new in the school. You want the kids to like you, you know, you want to establish that. But I knew walking in integrity was more important, and to demonstrate that as well.
And so the kids were begging me, “Don’t, don’t do anything”, you know, “Why’d you take it from us?” and stuff like that, but I had to turn it in to the principal and a lot of kids lost some eligibility time in sports and stuff. But again, if you do the right things, people will respect you for that, and I gained some respect right away with the staff and with the principal and actually the athletes as well. You know, even though they acted irritated and stuff, some of those kids later on would come up to you and you could tell they still appreciated it and said that. I mean, not everybody likes you, but you’re not there to be liked, you’re there to educate and to care for people and to do the right thing.
Abby: Yeah, yeah. So the students, even who got caught then, you said that actually in the long run, a lot of them, they didn’t not like you because of that.
Andrew: No, you gain their respect. They know you care as you spend time with them, especially probably the athletes that I had. Yeah maybe some on the other sports didn’t but when you’re coaching in football, you get to know them well, especially wrestling, because you’re actually one-on-one with them a lot of times practicing, it’s a unique sport for coaches. I mean, you wrestle right with the kids.
Abby: Yeah.
Andrew: And so they, I mean, not all of them liked it. I mean, obviously, and I remember some being upset ‘cause I would hold my wrestlers accountable and they’re like, “Well, you hold us more accountable than the other kids” and stuff. I’m like, “Well, yeah, ‘cause you’re my athletes and I expect more out of you.” And some didn’t like that, but in the long run, I know they respected it.
Abby: Diving into that accountability a little bit, you said something like, “I hold my wrestlers more accountable ‘cause you’re the people that I’m responsible for coaching.” So you had been an athlete, like you said, since three or four. So you’d been- experienced what it felt like to be a part of a team and be a team member How did that, how did you transition into coaching and now you’re responsible for training that accountability in other men, mainly, who maybe sometimes are making some decisions that you don’t agree with when it comes to their personal integrity and how they’re choosing to make decisions. So, how did you navigate that?
Andrew: Well, first of all, I just wanna say, I don’t take credit for this. I feel like it was the Lord doing a work in me; looking back, now I can see how all of this was training, whether it was me participating in sports as a child or going to college. I remember my high school wrestling coach one time, just talking about how much harder it was for him, it was coaching than it is for the athlete. And I just, I thought that was the craziest thing. I’m like, “I’m like, the one cutting weight, having to miss these things, out on the mat, and you’re sitting in the chair and what are you talking about?” And then I coached and I realized what he talked about, especially like in wrestling, you have ups and downs as an athlete. You’re only really worried about yourself. You do worry about the team, but ultimately a person’s really worried about themselves and doing well. And so maybe you have three matches that day or four matches and that’s, well, a coach might have 40 matches in a sense. And a kid doing really well gets his first win of the, maybe the season and you’re thrilled, and then also there’s a big upset the very next match or somebody didn’t wrestle well, or he got upset and threw his headgear and you’ve been working hard on training these kids about integrity and not doing that. “Hey, here, we don’t do that.” And so you have these ups and downs the whole time. And so again, coaching and bringing these things into, into your athletics, for me, was important and wanted to raise up these athletes to become men.
And so one of the ways I was purposeful, and one of the reasons why I wanted to hold these kids more accountable, is we did what was called Character Wednesday. A way for me to share the love of Christ, to share Godly principles, but not using the Bible, but using just Godly morals and stories, maybe something like that. The stories were from the Bible, maybe, you know, sure, about David and Goliath, whatever. You might not say it’s from the Bible, but using Godly principles. And so trying to do more than just wrestling, just, more than coaching wrestling or more than just coaching football, like, training these kids to be men and work in the communities and become fathers themselves. And so we would, like I said, after practice, on Wednesday we’d cut practice a little short and we’d go through “Coaching to Change Lives”, a curriculum that I had and stuff, and so we would talk about some of these things. So then I would tell them like, “Hey, I’m going to hold you accountable.” When we’d go to the state tournament stuff, I’d remind them, “You’re representing Bruce”, or when I was at Spooner, “You’re representing Spooner, you’re representing me as a coach, and your program, your town, your family.” And again, they’re young, so they made mistakes. They didn’t always grasp that, but hopefully as they got older, they did.
Abby: How do you handle, or how did you handle when someone did mess up? What do you do in those situations?
Andrew: A lot of it depended on, again, they might not like this ‘cause things don’t always seem fair in life but… but they’re not. A lot of it depended on the wrestler or the athlete. I would get to know them. I’d get to know their background. Some may be having a family that was going through a divorce, for example. They might be struggling and other things the other wrestlers weren’t understanding. And so it might seem like I was treating them different, and I’d hold everybody accountable, but it all depended on the situation. And so really getting to know, so like if you’re in a business, getting to know your employees, knowing what they’re going through is, is a big deal. And so you’re able to approach it. Um, like for example, I mean, I have three boys, every one of them receive discipline or correction differently. The same as, and so knowing that makes a big difference as a coach or as a boss.
Abby: Yeah.
Andrew: Um, like for me, all’s my dad had to do is look at me and I’d start crying. I mean, he didn’t have to say anything, again. Like I said, I was, I was shy. I was a cry baby as a, as a kid. And so knowing that about the athletes, um, would help, and how I’d respond to it.
Abby: Is that something that you felt came by naturally, knowing how to like build those relationships? Um, ‘cause it can be hard to figure out how people are different to know how to respond differently and not everybody does that. So was that something that you just kind of had? Did you do something to get better at that?
Andrew: Like I said, looking back now, I take zero credit. I feel like the Lord was doing a work in me, preparing me, never dreamt I’d be a pastor one day. So my seminary was a little bit different. I went to a secular college, was in sports, taught in a public school, and I think it was all training, really, for seminary. There was some classes that I’d have, coaching classes, things like that, where it would help on some of those, things, you know, I don’t recall all those classes put I picked up nuggets through those things, talking about sports and helping or going to listen to a speaker or it might be something I’m reading in the Bible or a message at church. So all of those things were a combination and God forming me into the person that I am today.
Abby: Yeah, and you mentioned or you just said something about how you’d, you had no idea you were going to be a pastor, but now that’s what you do. And significantly earlier in your life than you, I mean, you never thought it was coming, but then when you started to get slightly comfortable with the idea, this was not the timing you had anticipated at all. How has your background in teaching and coaching then played into being a pastor?
Andrew: Well, like I said, I think it was my seminary in a sense, learning to be part of a team, as you mentioned, with staff or coaching, learning to sit down and talk to somebody, listening to people, hearing what they have to say. I think all of it was training and preparing me for something that the Lord had for me that I didn’t realize.
Abby: How do you handle diving into relationships then and then holding people accountable in the church setting?
Andrew: Church setting is different than public setting which I think is, actually can be more helpful but actually more difficult at the same time and I’ll try to explain that. ‘Cause we have the Word of God, so we have a handbook from God to give us, “this is how a church should operate.” And so in that part, I think it’s easier, but it becomes more difficult because it’s people that you truly are close to and you love and people that you might expect to know this or to walk in that holiness, but you have the ugliness of sin and an enemy that tries to lie to people and deceive people so they don’t always see it. And so we’ve walked through church discipline as a church. Some churches have kind of veered from that, walking in grace and, but I would say church discipline is grace. It’s grace in somebody’s life to say “what I’m seeing in your life, I believe the Lord would want to see change”. And if it’s unrepentant sin, much better us bringing that judgement as a church body or the people that love them then at judgement one day. And so like I said, it’s difficult. It’s hard to do. And people just say, “Well, you’re judgmental. You don’t care. You’re not showing grace.” To still walk through that, the easier part again is to have the Word of God, God’s words, to say, “This is how it’s supposed to be done within a church body.”
Abby: Yeah, yeah. And same as in coaching where you had to go after some stuff in athletes, I mean, I grew up mat-side watching you coach, and so I’ve seen a lot of wrestlers come and go and I’ve seen a lot of different situations and how you’ve handled them, and um, there’s sometimes where an athlete, you know, did have an attitude problem. They had something where it was very evident like “Hey, you’re not responding to this well. This is an issue, it’s a problem.” They’re, you know, they struggle to be coachable. I’ve also seen that now reflected a little bit in the church sense. Could you maybe talk about that a little bit? Because I’ve seen you handle it on the mat and I’ve also seen you handle it in church. So how is this just a people thing?
Andrew: I might not be able to share as much as you would like on this topic because a lot of it is private information. So in general, though, I can speak generally. Again, it’s trying to be as loving and gracious as possible, giving room for people to see their sin and giving them time to repent. And so it might take months for a church discipline thing to walk through. The ultimate goal is always reconciliation ultimately to God and then reconciliation to the body. And so there’s a lot of church discipline. People like to say, well, just if somebody say is excommunicated from the church or something, but there’s church discipline constantly with all of us, just like you would with your children. Sometimes it’s just, you know, a quick discussion, like “Hey, do you recognize?” “Oh yeah, I’m sorry.” That’s church discipline. And hopefully it’s happening between brothers, sisters, and the Lord that they’re doing it. Like scripture said, it starts off with, if you have an offense towards a brother to go to him. And you hope that’s where most of it gets reconciled right there in that first step where people are humbled to say, “Yeah, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to do that” or “Hey, thanks for telling me.” It is grace in our lives to have people care and to care deep enough to dive into your life and to say, “I want people in my life because I can be blinded.” I can be blinded by things. I want people in my life that I trust enough to say, no matter what, they’re willing to go to me. And even if I don’t see it, that I can trust them and say, “Hey, I don’t see it, but can you get me there biblically? Can you get me there? Give me some examples so that I can change it.” And I would hope that most people would want that in their life. And that’s not always the reality though.
Abby: I think that ironically I can speak to this more than most people, particularly in this conversation because you are my dad, so I grew up with you being my parent and parenting and disciplining and particularly the last couple of years of my life I think we’ve walked through a lot of that own personal struggle of, I didn’t realize it, I would have never said it, I thought I liked or was good at listening to other people and asking for wisdom, but I had a moment a couple of years ago where I realized I was asking more for your opinion and not your wisdom because I, I wasn’t really listening to heed it. I was just like, “Oh, yeah, this is what people do.” They ask people they respect for their opinions on stuff. And I had to realize through not heeding your wisdom and making some mistakes and then needing to pay the consequences for those I had to realize, “Oh, there’s a big difference between asking people’s opinions and then genuinely showing up to the table with someone and saying, ‘Will you give me wisdom? Will you show me if I’m off? Will you speak into that?’” And those are two different heart conditions. Now, needing, you know, I had to come to you and actually a pastor and like repent and say “I’m so sorry, I didn’t heed wisdom and I was so blind to my own hardness of heart there. I thought it was soft and it wasn’t.” So I’ve experienced the blessing of what you’ve talked about, what we’ve just talked about, you know, kind of that, that work that discipline can produce when you discipline, and it, and it took a long time, it actually took me walking through that, making the mistake and then needing to come back after the fact and going, “I’m really sorry, I missed it.”
Andrew: Yeah, and I appreciate that the Lord revealed that to you and was able to forgive. And… when we start grasping that the creator of us who knew us while we were in our mothers womb cares so much about us, that it’s for our good. And so when we start walking in his ways rather than man’s ways, it goes well. And there was a peace in you when you were able to do that, like, “Wow, this feels good.” When you heed that wisdom, and I try to share with people, again, it’s not, it doesn’t matter what I think, you know, it’s what does the Word of God say. And so I try to share at times, like, okay, here’s clearly what the Word of God says. And then there’s times like, I’m not for sure. Let me find out. Or there’s times I’d be like, “Hey, let’s pray about this”, and then I’ll say, “This is what I think, but you’ll have to make that decision.” And that’s a big difference compared to like, well, here’s clearly what God’s word says in a situation like this. And again, it’s for our good.
A lot of times people grow up, especially being in a public school, where they feel like God hasn’t answered their prayers, even though we know He has, but it’s according to His purposes and His timing. Or questioning the Bible, feeling like the Bible is just about a bunch of things that we can’t do. You know, “thou shall not do this, not do this…” But the Bible is actually not that. It’s pointing to Christ in the Old Testament and in the New Testament it’s pointing back to Christ, and it’s full of what we can do, what is best for us, how to walk in holiness, how to be restored back to a God where sin has separated us from. And so it’s full of life, and it’s, it’s got the answers for life.
Abby: Mm-hmm, I think one of the hard things when you’re talking about personal accountability and integrity is that it requires that kind of iron rubbing on iron. It requires being in relationship. It requires being made into something that we’re just not naturally, you know, we just don’t come out of the womb like “I’m so accountable” and like “I’m so responsible.” That’s something that is trained and is done over time like a coach would do. It’s like, no, it’s every time, and I’m going to go after this thing and that’s hard work. It’s hard work in the position of a coach or a leader or a boss or a teammate. And it’s hard because sometimes it goes really well and sometimes the right thing is to go after something and someone chooses not to respond in kind. So how do you handle, how do you handle that? What would be your advice to someone else in that position?
Andrew: Well, I just, I want to respond to what you’re saying because it’s true. We don’t come out of the womb naturally this way. We actually come out the opposite because of being born into sin. Our natural flesh is to be “I want what I want right now.” And, and you think about a child, a two-year-old, a baby, it’s all about “myself.” And so it’s not natural for us. So we need the Lord to do a work in us a to respond in a way that is not our natural flesh and to welcome people speaking in our life and to do that.
Abby: How, but even if people aren’t believers, I think this is still somethin that’s just like a human struggle that it’s hard to hold people accountable. It’s hard to work on teams when people aren’t taking that personal accountability. We do tend to live in a little bit more of an egotistical, self-centered society. So what would be your advice to somebody who’s on aa team? Maybe they are the coach, maybe they are the leader, maybe they’re even the parent. This applies to a lot of relationships in a lot of different situations. What would your advice be to that person trying to create a culture of personal accountability and integrity?
Andrew: Well, for starters, recognizing that it is actually best for us. And so I have grace for people that have been hurt. Hurt by pastors where it hasn’t gone well, hurt by coaches where it hasn’t gone well, hurt by teachers where it hasn’t gone well. I mean, I used to, you talk about the coaching world, I used to say, like, well, sports teach character, they teach hard work and dedication and all this, and it’s just not a true statement. The true statement is that good coaches will use sports to teach integrity, hard work, and dedication and those things. So if you look at the sports world, there’s coaches that do whatever, we’ve seen this, where they’ll do whatever to cheat there way into a victory and stuff like that. So people have experienced that in Little League, they’ve experienced it in high school or in college or a pastor that’s living in sin and been hurt by that. So, but it doesn’t remove the truth about teamwork when done right. Heeding other people’s advice, working together, heeding a coach or a pastor or a father. It doesn’t remove the truth of the fact that when done right, it does go well for the entire team or the entire group or the entire church.
And so, that’s what I would try to point out, out to the fact, again, being gracious to help find out where people have been wounded, where they’ve been hurt, where it hasn’t gone well. That’s maybe why that employee isn’t responding well, because they’ve been hurt in the past, and so they’re just not trusting. And so if you can get at those root issues and it helps significantly, I mean, it’s not immediate, but they can start to realize like, nope, you do care. You do have my best interest. And so that’s what I would try to point out to them. When you think of it that way, then you’re able to start saying, yeah, I wanna be a part of this team, I wanna be a part of this group.
Abby: I like that. And like you were saying, the root issue of things, I think it’s really easy to just walk around and not take the time to see what’s going on beneath the surface in people. One, because it’s time consuming, and two, because a lot of times people try to hide it, or maybe they don’t even know what’s going on underneath that and why something’s coming out that way. But if you wanna lead them, people well, you have to be in relationship and you do have to care enough and listen enough and take the time enough to go after some of those things to ultimately, like you said, be about reconciliation, about people seeing their lives, you know, encouraged and set free and moving forward, which is kind of your goal as a coach always: to see your athlete claim victory.
Andrew: It doesn’t matter if it’s a marriage book, a business book, coaching book… it’s the number one thing that’s always gonna come back is communication. And so learning to be able to communicate again as an employee or an employer, as an athlete or a coach, be able to communicate and you and I can have a conversation especially being male and female and we can say things and we both thought two different things in that conversation.
Abby: Yep
Andrew: And so learning to ask, you know, like repeating it, saying this, “Hey, I think this is what you’re saying…” and then the person being like “No, that’s not what I’m saying” or correct it or, “Yeah, that’s close, but this is not what I’m trying to mean.”
Abby: Yeah
Andrew: That’s a huge technique. So just communication is huge in all of this.
Abby: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I’ve experienced that in my life. So I know that to be true. So you mentioned this earlier, but you talked about how coaching is a lot about impact, nd the thing you leave with people. So we close every Beyond the Bar episode with these two questions ‘cause they’re the things that I wanna know. So it’s a two-part question. First question: if you could go back and tell your younger self one thing, what would it be? And then part two, what’s one thing you want to be remembered for.
Andrew: Oh, good questions. It’s… one thing I would tell myself going back as a younger person probably would be along the lines of talking about how man will make goals, they’ll make plans, but God will guide their steps and how true that is. I know I’ve dealt with a lot of seniors that just worry, like, “What am I gonna do?” and just tell yourself to start moving and operating with a green light. So, what does the Lord put on your heart? What are the giftings He’s given you? And just to recognize that the Lord will get you to where He wants you to go if you’re willing to just take steps.
gAgain, you don’t have to be a Christian to apply this to your life. You don’t have to believe in the Bible to apply this to your life. Move forward in the giftings and things that are on your heart and you will get to the place that you need to be. I didn’t plan on being a pastor. It was not in my goals or my thoughts at all. But the Lord got me there as I moved forward.
Abby: Would you explain the green light thing a little bit? Because you like briefly brought in that analogy, but will you just elaborate on that a little bit?
Andrew: Well, I’ll go back to senior year specifically. For example, if we’re talking about a stoplight- so red, yellow, and green- many people have a tendency to operate with a red light, especially somebody like myself. Like I said, I was shy, I was quiet, I was nervous. And you’re like, “Okay, Lord, tell me what school to go to”, or you’re praying about it. The Lord doesn’t usually speak that way. He wants us to operate with a green light until he puts up a red light. I mean, so if I’m a senior, again, what are my heart’s desires? Or maybe I’m 40 and I’m thinking, hey, I wanna make a job change or whatever. Well, you can sit at your desk wondering about that, or you can just start moving and with a green light and say, okay, I’m gonna start looking for a job. I’m gonna start applying for a job. Senior, I’m gonna start, I’ll apply to four colleges. I’ll see which one I get accepted to. Then maybe I only get accepted to two of them. All that narrowed it down. So then I go visit those two and I really have peace about one. Or I check what kind of financial aid I can get rather than just sitting there with a red light ‘cause you’re not gonna go anywhere. And so knowing that at a younger age, it gives you a lot more peace. Like, okay, I can go to one college. God can still get me to a different one. And so I think that’s helpful. And the second part of that question was…
Abby: What’s one thing you wanna be remembered for?
Andrew: I guess the only thing I really wanna be remembered for is that “he was a man of integrity; a man of God”, and the rest of it will take care of itself. I just, I wanna know that “he was faithful.” Scripture talks about, Paul talks about, “I ran the race well.” I want people to say, “He ran the race well for God’s glory.”
Abby: I love that. That’s so cool. And I’m probably partial, ‘cause I am your daughter, but I think you’re doing that. I think that you’re a testimony to that. It was reason when I was thinking of this core value and who to bring on for “Trustworthy in Our Integrity: we rely upon one another to demonstrate personal accountability” I was like, okay, who do I bring on for this episode? And it was super obvious to me. I have to bring on my dad. I just have to. If it’s talking about someone you’re looking up to the most, you definitely qualify. So it’s really fun to have you on something like a podcast. You’re not on social media, you’re not on any of the things, so it’s fun that you are willing to do it, but it’s just really been an honor to be able to sit down and talk with you. Yeah, so-
Andrew: Well thank you, Abby, I appreciate that. And hopefully I don’t finish with tears in my eyes [laughs]
Abby: [Laughs]
Andrew: So thanks.
Abby: Well I love you, and we love all of you for being here, so thanks for tuning in to today’s episode! We are gonna have the rest of our two core value episodes, next week those will drop, so make sure you stay tuned, you hit that subscribe button so you can be notified when they drop, but we’ll dive into our final two core values next week so we’ll see you then!
